Forums Restructuring

[Bluewing]

Oh yes, this IS very, very sad news:( It was not only a place to talk about plants and discover ids, but to learn something you didn't know as well. Nothing last forever is not always a good thing.Hopefully I will see some of you again out there in computer land again.

This forum will be Greatly missed!

[janetdoyle]

Bluewing, as I understand it you can still participate in existing threads in the Pacific NW Gardening forum, as long as it is about plants commonly used here, and even answer existing questions in the other one, the gardening questions one, which allows only "new members" to post new threads or questions, as I understand it. We need all our old friends to post in the Pacific Northwest one and the other one too. Does limit things, though, doesn't it. I rather like the forums at both Gardentenders.com and Unusualplants.net, and GardenWeb is good although huge. If you find any others that are more like this one, please let us know.

[Futura]

Thank you so much for the Citrus Forum. While I regret the loss I salute the value you added to the discussion while you were able. As a resident from BC I was proud that Univeristy of British Columbia was behind this. I was first told of this site from a friend in England. This site had international impact while it lasted.

regards

[Katalina25]

I was confused about the "until February 9" situation,

Wendy hi,

I am just following my notifications. I doubt I will open new topics anywhere, I feel so unsure where I am allowed lol

I am happy enough just replying, or helping with a new question.

[Futura]

Originally Posted by Daniel Mosquin

Indeed, there is more to the story than meets the eye. Suffice it to say that I was the one who requested the reduction of my workload with respect to the forums -- and a reallocation elsewhere -- and this was the decision worked out with my managers.

Among these, though not the only reason, is that 3 forum members complained to my director about how the forums were being administrated (i.e., complained about me). At least one of these called me a nazi, I'm told.

Despite expressing my absolute disinterest in working in a hostile environment (what could be more hostile than being equated with genocide?), this was the compromise -- fewer forums and less time to be spent by me here.

Daniel, that sounds like a real drag. If you're the guy who tried to herd this group of internet cats I thought you were doing a great job.

One of the things I liked about this site was that it had a level of seriousness to it and did not devolve into just another generic internet forum when left to their own devices. It had gravitas.

If anything you should of been even more crisp with the relentless political types who could not stop themselves from either direct or less than direct passive aggressive proselytizing, or the lonely who fill the board with smiley faces and hang in there kitty poster sentiments. Give them three time outs and they are banned.

I wish I had emailed your Director months ago and told him how pleased and proud I was of this site and to commend the staff who were keeping the barbarians at the gate. Since people like me never do that it's the irrational minority who do end up emailing the boss, complain of some perceived slight and ruin it for everyone.

Thanks for all your work on this and I am sorry the bastards got you down a bit.

[janetdoyle]

I am shocked at the above. I was given the name and snail-mail of the Director by a forum member, a nice civilized person, who had written him a letter privately, regretting the cutting back of the forums, and this person really begged me not to give the email address out on this forum. But I did, and maybe some of these characters used it for the above. I did put it out there because several other decent people urged me to pass on the email address so that they could write a letter regretting the cutting back... so I did. The original provider of the information was furious with me, and now I deeply regret putting this out for public use. I thought at the time I should, as it seemed foolishly picky to withhold it, and given that most people are too busy to use anything but email. I wonder if these complaining letters Daniel refers to happened much earlier than the recent episode, that would get me off the hook and I would feel better. I wrote myself, just recently, but it was not a complaining letter about Daniel, it was regretting the cutback of the forums and supporting Daniel. I would urge, to these readers here, that all Web-based communications on forums are subject to these strongly worded posts and sometimes freaky posts, and it is just part of the world of web forums. One has to just let people say their thing and the Administrator would be wiser not to toss them off unless they are being totally outrageous. I have seen the range of behaviour, and there was nothing that was left on the system that I saw that was a-typical of any forum... perhaps there were other posts which were censored or the authors were contacted to ask them to submit less aggressive or political posts. If they did not accept this but complained to the Director, this is just par for the course of the Internet and it might have been wiser for Daniel to disguise his identity. I am so sorry this happened, and Daniel, don't, please don't, let it get to you. You just were open enough to provide your real identity nd you became a victim of Web bad manners. I hope you can come back to more forums here and will indeed remain with us, and perhaps in future give yourself less open access so that new members don't start doing this... the ruder and less sensitive correspondents have probably moved off by now and gone elsewhere. They really needed a forum where they could play with words more and tackle gardening in a lighter style.

[wcutler]

Janet, Daniel mentioned three complaint letters in posting #47 (the posting quoted in the note immediately before your last one). You posted the already public links to contact information in posting #209, and it was in response to a request. The complaint letters had nothing to do with anything you did here.

[Mister Green]

So sorry to see this forum get cut back. In my opinion, it is the best source of local information and discussion on the internet. The members have always been the best of neighbours. In fact, some ARE my neighbours. I am just starting my gardening experience and will miss this community.

[Frog]

The forum is large and diverse and would take considerable staff time even without the nincompoops and spammers. On the one hand I'm hoping UBC Botanical Garden will reconsider at some point in the future, and restore the forum to its grand diversity; on the other hand, were I Daniel, I would have found the nincompoopery tiring in its pointlessness, and the complaint/personal attack letters to that Director, just the final straw.

I'm reminding myself of this the larger picture, as I can pretty much guess which folks were the childishly destructive letter writers, and I'm sorely wishing to give them a piece of my mind.

I am grateful that some of the forums will remain, and as I am a local, I'm personally not really losing out here. But it is sad to see the amazing & globally valuable complexity cut back.

onward & upward
frog

[firebirdbandit]

This is definatly sad. This was becoming the go-to place for information about anything gardening. Its too bad they couldn't hire some extra staff and find ways to generate some revenue... advertisement, pay for classified ads, pay for enhanced membership. There was potential. Now we are forced upon the world wide web to searh out another place.

Thanks for all that was done in the past.

[danc]

Originally Posted by Frog

complaint/personal attack letters to that Director, just the final straw.

Originally Posted by Frog

childishly destructive letter writers

Hi Frog, I think you were misled. Or maybe I am missing something. Has somebody testified there was at least one letter like that? Anyway, I think much care must be taken before categorizing as a whole or even large majority.

I confess...I sent an email to the Director, the reasoning that thus there was a bigger chance for him to get a feeling about how the changes were perceived, made sense to me. Childish and even pathetic, maybe. But please not complaint, personal attack or destructive....until there is proof (not necessarily material)

[Katalina25]

Should have been left to Daniel to write or speak to whoever..not any of us.

And also with the best of intentions no one ever should give out anothers email address..ever...

...ButIf permission was given fair enough.

I wonder why we are still writing in this thread now we made our points. There are still forums here, still pms here...make the best there is of these forums, its already a fantastic community and we can better it.

[danc]

Katalina25, I respect your opinion. It does not bring offense to anyone.

We are still writing in this thread because many are reading now for the first time and give their late (?) reply. The thread could be closed down anytime.

This is of public importance and I will not use pm.

I did not write to a private person, but to the Director himself, and it does not matter how I got the address, I don't even invoke the fact that it could be found in the staff contact information or that my email could have actually ended in the junk folder.

[janetdoyle]

Danc, apparently there were at least 3 complaint letters somewhat earlier than all this cutting-back and restructuring, to the Director, regarding their authors' treatment on the forums - but in actual fact their behaviour and postings were questionable in taste and causing much annoyance to genuine seekers/providers of information and assistance. So they complained. Mind you, just leaving and ignoring posts which are like that is maybe a better way to handle things, perhaps if they are aren't addressed specifically then the spiteful back-and-forth does not happen. Also, it might have been wise to have had an anonymous forums Administrator, but instead we all got to know Daniel a little in our discussions and his scholarly interest in the forums is part of the pleasures of exchanging gardening and horticultural assistance here. It would make it a bit hoity-toity-sounding to those who want to chat in asides to the main topic, but they could be tolerated or ignored, or simply deleted off the board as some other forums do. But, indeed, there was some unnecessarily vindictive behaviour from posters, and this happened probably because they were allowed to post but became too aggravating and were "spoken to" -- or whatever. I am sure forums will learn how to handle the public out there -- I have noticed that in the uproar over the Trenton base murders that the "Comments" section on CBC.ca News has been discontinued for those news stories... I can imagine why.

[Liz]

Janet as an outlander I still enjoy this list but I must say the preaching is getting nearly as bad as the bling. Maybe some of this could also go private. I was approached to send mail to the director but chose not to as It is not my place to say what the UBC want's to do. I love learning about what goes on north of the equator particularly when Oz plants are involved.

Liz

[togata57]

Thank you, Liz. Danc as well.

[janetdoyle]

Well said, reasonably said, you last two. I was just defending the one "side" here -- thought it needed some explanation, not that I am terribly in "the know". Yes, there is a bit of preachiness and I acknowledge that, I can tolerate it because I am an academic type with some "ordinary" mixed-in, although no real Preachers in the family, and it doesn't grate on me the way it does to some others. It's like Junior High School, the chatty popular types versus the nerds or serious students -- or something like that. Too bad. Don't know who starts it. Would be better if we all just lived with each other amiably, and as I said much earlier, "everybody's different" and we should let others be themselves, within reason. If you can't be yourself, in everyday life, as long as you're behaving legally and not harming or hurting anyone else's feelings, that's a shame -- and people should persist in being themselves, agreeably if possible... Sermon over for the day.

[The Hollyberry Lady]

I am undoubtedly stupefied by the hogwash continuing to run through this farce of a thread!

[Katalina25]

Last edited by Daniel Mosquin; Yesterday at 07:39 PM. Reason: Fixed text size.

Phew, thanks Daniel. I no longer need to c/p simply to read.

Katalina25, I respect your opinion. It does not bring offense to anyone.

Thanks Danc!

I understand there are more than the usual members who visit, some I guess just lurk but may voice an opinion on this important thread of Daniels.

Everyone have a peaceful day today.

[janetdoyle]

oops - realized I hadn't edited those two text size no-no's myself. I did note that my computer was acting up and I hadn't realized it was in tiny text until I saw my posts on the forum, but I should have made the changes myself, was too busy gardening and it slipped my mind. Sorry, all.

[danc]

Katalina25, I am blocked from sending you pms, which obliges me to reply here again. Possibly my words about your opinion led to an unwished for interpretation on your part, in which case I apologize.

some I guess just lurk but may voice an opinion on this important thread

Well, I may fit the profile. I am not sure how long I will still be lurking around, hope not much. Maybe until spring. Then will be back in autumn like the migrating birds.

Janetdoyle, though thanking somebody has now more significances attached than ever, I sincerely thank you for taking the time to explain that to me. Actually I had read about those letters, and no doubt those could do nothing but harm, I agree with that. But in my opinion not to such extent. I was wondering about the letters sent post announcement. Should or should not have been sent, that is debatable, but I see little use in it. Also, unless one has some new inside information about these recent letters, in my opinion no assumption should be made as to what they contained or not.

[janetdoyle]

You know, we are all reaching a kind of "epiphany" here [never was too sure what that was, but it sounds great!] together, and, you know, we experienced this crisis in our favourite forum with often less-than cheerful tempers and many different assumptions, now probably it's time to just join virtual hands and say thanks to Daniel, UBC hierarchies whoever and whatever they are, and to each other, and express our hopes that this Forum will continue successfully. Perhaps, if we now all use what is left of it productively, helpfully, and with a spirit of tolerant fellowship and forgiveness of each other's quirks and enjoy the chance to exchange information on the beautiful plants and garden techniques available to us, we can help the forum re-establish itself. Lest I say something to harm this genuinely good moment, I'd like to say good-bye to this explanatory sub-forum, and I'll see my online acquaintances in the plant and gardening sub-forums here!

[danc]

Sounds great, here is my virtual hand....

[Bluewing]

Thanks janet for the info!

[Autic]

I logged on for plant advice...and found this! O no!

I have not contributed a ton, (my knowledge is limited) but I have enjoyed reading and learning from others posts. Daniel has helped tremendously and I have always appreciated that. If the guy says it too much --for whatever reason-- I think that should be the beginning and the end of it....it is (was) his creation. I am sure there is no intent to make us feel 'kicked out' or otherwise neglected. Life happens, things change.

What if there was a Facebook group started? A page could be started, say by heavy contributors here and set it up anyway desired.

Thanks For Reading.
-Autic