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  #1  
Old December 6th, 2008, 01:29 PM
phansmail phansmail is offline
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Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Hi!

Thanks for looking...

I have two types of insect on my Lemon and Kumquat tree. I noticed them about a week ago. They probably have been on the plants since I moved them indoors from the patio outside (late october).

I have no idea what they are. At the moment the only thing i'm doing to remove them is squishing each one individually. My lemon tree was very much infested with the little black insects. I actually washed each leaf individually then squishing what I could with my fingers. I killed a lot of the blooming flowers (they were all over them) but I was so freaked out by them killing my plant that i killed almost 98% of them on the plant. In the last week I have notice a few here and there when I check up on them. I squish those too. But I rather not squish them any more and would like a real (squirtable remedy).

Then on my kumquat trees (all 3 of them now), I just notice this really small red insects. They are probably the size of a pin needle. I try squishing them too but every time I do this, i'm causing my fruits to drop. I don't know what to do.

Any help would be appreciated.

I've separated the lemon trees from the kumquat trees just in case they are going to infect one another.

I've attached the pictures to this post... but if you need to see a super close up then here are the same pictures in my album. LINKY

Thanks!
Phan
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  #2  
Old December 6th, 2008, 03:52 PM
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

I will search around for you to see if I can figure out your uprisings!

Kale:)
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Old December 6th, 2008, 04:02 PM
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Kale Kale is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

See if Newt can help you out,I found this for you so far.

http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/fo...ad.php?t=15866


I would just let a spray of water wash the plant down, I think it is lacking light,did you change the top few layers of soil before you brought it in? Have you transplanted it ?
Check out the link above...
Do you have any herbs in your house?
Several will help, let me know which herbs you have or can get quickly.
Chives, onion, Allium, hot peppers etc..

Kale:)
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  #4  
Old December 6th, 2008, 05:50 PM
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Junglekeeper Junglekeeper is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

The insect on the lemon tree looks much like the one seen in one of the images in this thread. Its identity has yet to be positively determined but you may want to monitor that thread for updates.

Your description of the pest on the kumquat trees suggests spider mites especially if there is webbing present on the trees. Not sure because of the quality of the images but the leaves appear to be speckled which would be consistent with mite damage.
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Old December 6th, 2008, 06:59 PM
phansmail phansmail is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Thank you all for the response...

As for some of the questions... here are my answers..
I think it is lacking light - Nope..it's not lacking light... The trees get a good 8 hour stretch..sometimes more.
did you change the top few layers of soil before you brought it in? - no... I just bring them in without changing the soil. Didnt' think I had to. Actually never dawned on me to change it.
Have you transplanted it ? - not recently
Do you have any herbs in your house? - no herbs in my house. the kumquats and lime trees are near my calamodin, fig shrub, money tree and jade plant.
Several will help, let me know which herbs you have or can get quickly. Chives, onion, Allium, hot peppers etc.. - i have onions (yellow and spring). Hot peppers I have access to jalapenos and thai hot peppers.

Junglekeeper... I checked out the link to the other thread and it's the same exact insect! :) I noticed that they mentioned sweet sticky sap and my lemon tree had it too. I washed most of it off already and the ones that were too sappy, I pinched off. As for the bugs, yes my flower tips were covered in it. I also examined one of the posters pic (this one) and if you look carefully you can see the little light gray bugs too and my lemon tree had that as well! I washed it off. I was freaking out like that poster too. I actually was more freaked out cause I was scared it was going to infect my over the top expensive kumquat trees. Oh and in that thread they mentioned the leaves being damaged. The leaves on my lemon tree are not damaged. They are all healthy and nice with new growth with tons of flowers (well what's left of them now...)

The funny thing is that the original poster got her lemon trees from burgess and so did I! Burgess had a special and I ordered the meyer lemon trees.

They are suggestion to use an insecticidal soap on the tree. Will this harm the tree and leaves? I actually washed everything off and pinched what I can off so not much is left. But I just dont know what to do. UGH. :(
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Old December 6th, 2008, 08:00 PM
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by phansmail View Post
The funny thing is that the original poster got her lemon trees from burgess and so did I! Burgess had a special and I ordered the meyer lemon trees.
Interesting! It seems Burgess may be the source of the problem, at least partially. I found the following negative review of this company submitted by ABJ (on Jul 9, 2008) in Garden Watchdog.
Quote:
Two years ago I ordered two lemon trees, lured in buy cheaper prices than other companies. It took so long to receive my order that I called the company to see if they had lost my order. When I finally received my two "sticks" they were full of bugs. I planted them seperately away from other plants and one died within a few days; it was eaten completely by these bugs. The other suffered badly. When I called the company for a replacement, they instead told me to go to a local garden center for advise and get something for the bugs there. No replacement at all! I will never buy from them again.
Anyway, insecticidal soap, as applied over multiple applications as directed on the label, should take care of aphids and spider mites and will not harm a citrus tree. You should positively identify the pests though before doing so. I have a feeling the soap will not be effective against the 'beetle'. Also, it's probably not a good idea to remove the leaves. The honeydew should wash off; use warm water and a washcloth for the more stubborn areas.
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  #7  
Old December 6th, 2008, 08:09 PM
Millet Millet is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

The black bug you are talking about is a rather common insect (aphid not a beetle) on citrus, and appears no matter where the tree was purchased or is being grown. In Colorado (a cold winter state) they show up in March. A couple cautions: You can use your hose to wash them from the tree, however be careful about repeated washing over a short time frame. Citrus leaves are VERY adapt at absorbing soluble salts through the leaves. Depending on the concentration of soluble salts in your residential water source, repeated washings when done in more or less close proximity, can easily raise the salt level in the tree causing the tree to drop all foliage. I have seen this happen more that once trying to control this very insect. Both soapy water sprays and horticultural oil, such as Ultra Fine Horticultural Oil, work very well controlling this insect. Of the two I prefer the horticulture oil. Neither are harmful to citrus, and both are completely non toxic. Spray oil only EARLY in the morning or later in the evening, just before dusk. Do not spray during the heat of the day. These insects seem to return several times, so normally several applications are required. If you need repeated spray applications, dissolve the soap or oil in distilled water, so you will not be spraying any soluble salts. - Millet
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Old December 6th, 2008, 08:35 PM
Millet Millet is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

There are a number of different types of aphids, the most common is the green aphid. The most dreaded of all aphids is the black aphid, for it is very persistent. Black aphids reproduce very quickly, as do all aphids, and if you spot a few you must take care of them quickly or you will soon have an epidemic on your hands, and you will have the same problem the next year! Aphids usually appear after a period of cloudy, cool weather. Aphids like those conditions, and that is when they reproduce the most. If you had just a few before the cloudy weather, give them a week of optimum conditions and they will infest your plants to the point where you will be ready to throw them out! - Millet
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Old December 6th, 2008, 08:40 PM
phansmail phansmail is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millet View Post
There are a number of different types of aphids, the most common is the green aphid. The most dreaded of all aphids is the black aphid, for it is very persistent. Black aphids reproduce very quickly, as do all aphids, and if you spot a few you must take care of them quickly or you will soon have an epidemic on your hands, and you will have the same problem the next year! Aphids usually appear after a period of cloudy, cool weather. Aphids like those conditions, and that is when they reproduce the most. If you had just a few before the cloudy weather, give them a week of optimum conditions and they will infest your plants to the point where you will be ready to throw them out! - Millet
Oh goodness... :( I will check more often. But I will go to the local nursery to buy some of the oil you mentioned. :) Hopefully that will kill those nasty buggers...

I guess the oil solution will kill the spider mites too?
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Old December 7th, 2008, 05:52 AM
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

I have not encountered pest of any kind on little lemon tree that I started (grew) for fun,(just threw seed of different fruit in a container and watched, ended up with a lemon tree*LOL) I do know however that if you just blend some garlic and hot peppers (can be dangerous to skin and eyes so be extremely careful wear gloves !) of any kind in say 1 1/2 gal of water (strain really well) put in the spray bottle of your choice. Then add a "drop" (less then 1/4 teaspoon) of oil Veggie or sunflower or peanut and a drop (less then 1/4 teaspoon) of joy liquid dish soap after you have it all strained and mixed it will kill off those little boogers.from roses and veggies.With no ill effect to them.
How old are your trees?
What size containers, and soil type?


NOTE::
You can try plain garlic cloves or garlic cloves with allium blended and strained well, with water to fill your spray bottle.
Oil and soap I would add (use) after I am exasperated,which usually doesnt occur. I find garlic does wonderfully all by itself.
Not sure if soap and oil would effect the taste of the fruit.I don't have any yet,and I do not eat my roses.
Plain water wash should keep things under control and the top layer of soil removed and replaces.Not sure how delicate the trees are (actually I'm afraid to transplant my baby which needs to be faced real soon) but, If you can't get the pest under control I would suggest a complete soil change into a clean bleach washed down rinsed very well cool water new pot.
Stay on it! You are bigger then that PEST! You will win... just stay calm.! These pests do not need to mate they just keep reproducing!!
All the best...

Kale:)
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Old December 7th, 2008, 06:12 AM
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

BTW,I noticed after viewing your pics again that you have a wire holding your branches/stems together.Can I recommend taking that off immediately and using something that will give room for the tree to grow.I seems like it is pinching thus giving pest an entry way. When plants are under stress of any kind;ie.. restrained,lack of or too much of water,sun etc is when the pest find a home.These wraps have velcro,you can just loosen as the plant grows or there is another I do not have a pic of that will actually give your plant room for some movement.Movement is what gives your plant strength.If you want a pic of the other ties I think I can accommodate you.Not sure if you can get it now,this time of the year ..but may be able ..


Kale:)
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  #12  
Old December 7th, 2008, 07:21 AM
Millet Millet is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

I do not know about using hot peppers, garlic and etc., as i have never tried those type of methods, but one thing you do not want to do with a lemon, in fact any type of citrus, is remove the top layer of soil. Citrus are very shallow rooted plants, with the majority of roots near the surface of the soil. Removing the top layers and replacing would cause a lot of damage to the tree's root system. - Millet
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:48 AM
phansmail phansmail is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Kale: thanks for the wire input. I actually just put the wires on the plant to retrain it to spread out more evenly. Usually I use twine that is loosely tied to the branches to retrain them to go a certain way. My kumquat was lopsided and I never bothered to even it out till now. I will try to find the velcro ties. If I can't find them I probably will use the green paper tape (floral tape?) to tie them down.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 03:00 PM
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Millet, I would have to disagree with you on the removal of soil.
There is a way to wash away the top layer of soil if need be; gently if roots are there .
I just transplanted my lemon tree that I started from seed, I noticed the roots you speak of and with a little water I could have removed just the top layers without damaging the lemon tree.As far as Organic way to remove pest I am nearly a master at it.
I do not use any store bought chemical for my pest and disease that may find their way to my plantlife.Some roses that are bought potted will need their top layers removed,it is done so gently,with tepid water.Some of their roots are not even under the soil.It can be done;only if need be. I would not recommend it on the Cyclamen, then again they are not subject to pests.The pest that we are speaking of live in the soil until the are mature enough to eat the life out of the plant in which they are growing in.
Of course it is the growers call.

Phansmail,
You are welcomed and I think the floral tape would be fine, (for now) I would wrap one branch/stem then pull the next to it I would not let the two touch at any point or time.****Note; the floral tape will be a bother to get off should that time come.That is why I suggested the velco or the stretch ties; which I will post a pic of in a few.


Kale:)
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Old December 7th, 2008, 05:57 PM
Millet Millet is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Kale, welcome to the citrus forum. I am not a organic grower, but I am not anti-organic. I believe there is a lot of value to the organic theory, it is just that I much prefer traditional chemicals and traditional methods, especially on container citrus. I would mention, that the insect we are talking about in this thread is the black aphid. Aphids do not live in the soil, but rather live on foliage, and give birth to live young. Any way, each to their own. Take care. - Millet
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Old December 8th, 2008, 05:39 AM
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Thanks for the welcome,I think we've met...:D


All aphids go through their reproducing cycle. They lay their eggs underside of leaves, cracks, what have you. The leaves fall to the ground there they stay. Unless there are crevices and cracks in the small lemon tree growing in Maryland they were hiding in the soil. When he watered, nymphs hatched because they reached the correct climate and temps.Elsewhere they would just continue reproducing (each female on her own) but being Maryland is getting chili the aphid were going to complete their cycle for now.
In fall/winter (depending on temps etc) leaving their eggs for next spring some where, I suggest the underside of leaves, leaves fall or they just fall off; leaving the leaf, and land in the soil. Yes they will hibernate there as tiny little eggs, attached to the leaves or not. Any aphid that had an end cycle which then obtains its wings leaves eggs where ever she can.
I bet if he submerged that tree in a tub of water warm water slowly and let the bubbles come up from the bottom on their own he will in fact see aphids floating about.

Yes,thanks for sharing... I know they lay their eggs on twigs cracks,mostly weeds etc
Chemicals only stress the plant more and to actually get those little mites and such,
is costly ( If you can breathe through it).

Hope the lemon pest go elsewhere into bug heaven..
Now if you can get a lady beetle you would be fine*lol

Have a great day.

Kale:)
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 08:06 AM
phansmail phansmail is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

I'm so sad...

The nursery did not have the Ultra Fine Horticultural Oil but had the soap... So I used the soap. My meiwa kumquat tree is now dying. I would say 60% of the leaves have fallen and some of the twigs are now turning brown. I'm so sad. the trees had tons of fruits and leaves and was beautiful. Now my tree is half deadish. Most of the leaves have fallen and the fruits have all dropped.

Out of the 7 citrus plants I have. Two trees are affected by the soap. One tree is totally dead after 3 days. Nothing I could do. The half dead meiwa is hanging on for dear life..but I just dont know what to do now. I'm just sitting here everyday sweeping up all the dead leaves and it saddens me that it will die.

I should have just left the bugs alone and just squashed them as I saw them. I just didnt know that the soap would have killed off my plant this way.
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 12:38 PM
Millet Millet is offline
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

Phansmall, Sorry to hear about the conditions of your trees. I alway prefer Ultra Fine horticultural oil as a general spray for insects that attack citrus trees. Horticultural Oil is by FAR the most commonly used "insecticide" by the citrus industry world wide. Although, I never use soap sprays, I will say that a soap spray should not have hurt your tree, if it was used properly. Was the soap spray you purchased a Ready-to-use spray, or was it a concentrate? Further did you spray very early in the morning, or late in the evening, or did you spray during the heat of the day? Citrus are quite resilient, your trees might come back. - Millet
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Old December 22nd, 2008, 01:18 PM
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Re: Help with two types of insects on Kumquat and Lemon tree

The soap does not do any harm if used as directed. The setback is more likely due to environmental or cultural factors. I've lost a number of meiwa kumquat trees in the past due to, I believe, low humidity levels indoors. The symptoms, leaf loss and branch dieback, are exactly what I experienced until I raised the humidity. Other citrus varieties I have don't seem to be affected in the same way.
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