Transplanting Hellebore niger (Christmas rose)

Discussion in 'Outdoor Gardening in the Pacific Northwest' started by fern2, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. fern2

    fern2 Active Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    When (& how) should I transplant an established winter-blooming hellebore in Vancouver? Obviously, most plants prefer to be moved in Fall or early Winter here but, since the hellebore is gearing up to bloom soon, would I be better off waiting until Spring?

    The plant is in VERY acidic soil (under an old pine) and I think the stress of that makes it particularly vulnerable to fungal leaf spot. So I want to move it to another part of my garden (still acidic but not as much).

    Thanks for your advice.
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

    Messages:
    21,250
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    WA USA (Z8)
    Maybe instead try topdressing with limestone, if the acidity really does seem to be the problem. If not wishing to wait for possible improvement from this treatment then popping it out should be okay, in my experience plants in this genus may be slowed for a time by transplanting but are not expected to die from it.

    Note that the genus is Helleborus and not Hellebore. I realize this slangy use of Hellebore in place of Helleborus has become prevalent but that does not make it anymore acceptable than referring to mankind as Homey sapiens and so on.
     
  3. Lysichiton

    Lysichiton Active Member

    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Fraser Valley, BC.
    Well, I have a couple of venerable clumps of these & I have moved them around & chopped them with a spade as I would my other perennials. No special soil, no special treatment. I tend to do this moving in the fall or early spring. Didn't bother the Helleborus (got that? Helleborus - of course in private I may call them Lenten Rose). The only time I came close to wiping them out was when they were not dressed with manure or compost. They seem to thrive on being well fed - but then, so do I.

    Mine are starting to flower right now & will hopefully grace the house over Xmas.

    gb.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

    Messages:
    21,250
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    WA USA (Z8)
    Your use of Lenten Rose is not a common name being used in place of a genus name. The equivalent would be Lenten Rose x hybridus in place of Helleborus x hybridus.
     
  5. Lysichiton

    Lysichiton Active Member

    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Fraser Valley, BC.
    Ron, Ron...you're making my head ache! I never have been able to sort out Hellebores & their gazillion hydrids - YES, I will use those inaccurate terms ("Hellebore" & "gazillion"). It is how they are most commonly known around here - "Gosh look at those gazillions of Hellebore hybrids springing up in my flower bed! I will have to treat them as weeds, I guess, & hoe 'em down!" - being a typical sentence structure.

    The little white flowers with the yellow stamens that we cut from now to about March & bring in the house have been variously named by me & those around me over the years as Xmas Rose & Lenten Rose. These names seem to get used depending on what time the things are flowering. Botanically I have known them as Helleborus niger, rightly or wrongly.

    If I post a picture will you be able to give me an accurate name, please? I promise to use it in future. Then can we drop the subject before I get even more confused?

    gb
     
  6. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,116
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England
    gb, technically the Christmas rose is Helleborus niger and the Lenten rose is Helleborus orientalis, although most plants sold under the latter name are usually Helleborus x hybridus and they can be white or they can be many other colours. Sorry that is not too much help. Hellebores.org is a good site for more info on the various species.

    As for transplanting, the roots usually go quite deep compared to some perrenials so be prepared to dig deep for the best chance of success.
     
  7. Lysichiton

    Lysichiton Active Member

    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Fraser Valley, BC.
    Thanks maf! I love it. I shall post my pic, see if I get a name & retire from any futher discussion. :)

    gb.
     
  8. fern2

    fern2 Active Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Ha ha, I go away for a few days and a taxonomic vocab war breaks out. My goodness!
    Well, I apologise for my part in all of this (since my misspelling triggered the mayhem here) and I beg for leniency: I'd meant to ask my question 2wks ago but kept forgetting - so, despite running late to a meeting on Wednesday, I was determined to post something before I ran out the door (bad choice: I got reamed out by my boss for being so late!). Hence the unfortunate typo.
    Truce?
     
  9. fern2

    fern2 Active Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    glass brain, I usually resort to wordplay & logic to distinguish between the two species - in particular:
    1. Lent is observed right before Easter, so I know that Lenten roses must bloom in the spring & early summer, sometime around Easter
    2. Similarly, "orient" is Latin for "east", so I know that Helleborus orientalis must bloom around Easter time
    3. It's a stretch but... "hybridus" and "orientalis" both end in a similar sound, so I know that "Helleborus x hybridus" must be similar to "Helleborus orientalis", not "Helleborus niger"
    It may seem rather corny but it's actually a very useful trick to know.
    I hope it helps, Homey sapien. Wurd.
     
  10. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

    Messages:
    21,250
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    WA USA (Z8)
    Lenten Rose being used as a common name is of no consequence, what I was pointing out is that the habit that has arisen among some gardeners of using the common name hellebore in place of the genus name Helleborus is not correct. That's all. Nothing wrong with hellebore as a common name, either, just don't call them Hellebore niger, Hellebore x hybridus etc. A more equivalent example than Homey sapiens would be Lily formosum.
     
  11. Lysichiton

    Lysichiton Active Member

    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Fraser Valley, BC.
    OK, attached are 2 pics. the flowers are what I have been calling Helleborus niger -"Christmas Rose". The flowers are damaged this year. Don't know why, the weather has been pretty good. The green leafy thing is what I have been calling a Hybrid Hellebore. I once had name varieties, but now I have dozens of things along these lines that come up. I let a few come & treat the rest as weeds. They mostly flower early in the spring, but I find them flowering at other times of year as well. They may be pinkish, whitish, purplish, greenish. brownish. "Ishy" is the predominant colour characteristic.

    Am I on the right track with the names? I have retired the "Lenten Rose" monniker, since I realized I did not have any clear idea which plants I was using that name for!

    gb
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

    Messages:
    21,250
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    WA USA (Z8)
    The one on the left has characteristics of Helleborus foetidus, the one on the right looks like H. niger.
     
  13. Lysichiton

    Lysichiton Active Member

    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Fraser Valley, BC.
    Thanks Ron, I will carry on with those.
    Merry Xmas - roses or not!

    gb
     
  14. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,116
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England
    gb, H. foetidus goes by the common name stinking hellebore over here; for some reason this common name is not all that widely promoted by nurseries and garden centres. Merry Xmas.
     

Share This Page