solanum dulcamara, perrenial, but how long?

Discussion in 'Annuals, Biennials, Perennials, Ferns and Bulbs' started by Shohin, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. Shohin

    Shohin Member

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    Bittersweet nightshade (solanum dulcamara) life span

    Last month i collected some seeds of a "shrub" - probably a vine, which I later identified as Solanum dulcamara, also known as bittersweet nightshade, a perennial plant. Although I allready know it's poisonous, I still want to develop it into miniature tree. Now there's a problem as "perennial" means "which lives more than two years, even if it loses the leaves in winter or not". Obviously, two years it's a bit too short for my purpose. So, here's my question: how long its the life span of solanum dulcamara?
    Thanks a lot,
    Marius from Romania
     
  2. Shohin

    Shohin Member

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    Ok, last try: does anyone know the life span of Bittersweet nightshade (Solanum dulcamara)?
     
  3. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Not woody, I think the entire stem always dies away annually here, where it is a fairly common weed.
     
  4. Shohin

    Shohin Member

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    Hi, Ron
    U might be right (unfortunately). I've been digging deeper since and found out that the nightshade has a wooden part from which not lignified branches emerge. Somehow, this non-woody part disappears durring the cold season and new shots emerge in spring. So i came to the conclusion that more probably than not it's not worth trying to grow it as a mini-tree. However, it has fascinating flowers and (dangerously) beautiful fruits.
    Thanx,
    Marius
     
  5. JerusalemCherry

    JerusalemCherry Member

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    I have this plant in my backyard & it is approx a 20 year old vine. They live for many many years. Just an FYI... This company called GlassHouseWorks.com sells the variegated form of dulcamara. You might want to get ur hands on this plant. Its very pretty....
     
  6. Shohin

    Shohin Member

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    Hi JerusalemCherry,
    As I have previously mentioned, I live in Romania, a country where u can buy allmost nothing via Internet. Anyway, variegated forms are not very elligible for mini-trees (making bonsai being too much for my actual skills). I am very curious to know how the lignified part of your vine looks like, just to make an idea. But i think it would be too much to ask you to post a picture.
    Thank you for being so kind to answer.
    Marius
     
  7. JerusalemCherry

    JerusalemCherry Member

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    I have no pictures of this plant. Its looks similar to a tree's bark. But it is smooth. Would you like me to send you a solanum dulcamera (Variegated)? Or I can mail you some seeds if you like. They are very easy to grow.. Let me know what you think... I live in New Jersey (USA). I am about 20 miles outside of New York City. This plant grows very well here.
     
  8. Shohin

    Shohin Member

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    JC, You are so kind, but, as I have mentioned before, the variegated forms do not have such appeal for the bonsai art. This is partly because they look so "unnatural", not to say artificial. But this doesn't mean they are not showy and interesting. Thank you verry much for the offer, but the natural form is better for my purpose. It was amazing to see how easy it is to propagate this vine by seeds: sow'em in 50% peat and 50%sand, keep it moist, and that's all. About 100% germination rate.
     
  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Yes: "entire stem" was an overstatement, made with the caution "I think". I guess I have seen the lower portions persisting through winter. Jacobson, Wild Plants of Greater Seattle says "Though this semiwoody vine is rarely more than 1/2" thick, it is capable of clambering 30' or higher into trees".
     
  10. Shohin

    Shohin Member

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    Thx, Ron
     
  11. NiftyNiall

    NiftyNiall Active Member 10 Years

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    I have seen it in Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam up to 2cm in diameter, and climbing over 40 feet. It appears to live for well over twenty years. Based on the fact that I have seen many of these vines that I know are 15 years old, and they are only 1cm, in diameter at best, but they still ramble all over the countryside for at least 20 feet. One that I have seen in Port Coquitlam was 3cm and growing like a tree straight up for 10 feet until it reached the surrounding vegetation, when I first saw it I thought that is was a mountain ash!!!. +++ Beautiful but poisonous. +++
     
  12. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Jacobson says "When fully ripe the berries are harmless, not deadly."
     
  13. NiftyNiall

    NiftyNiall Active Member 10 Years

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    Solanum dulcamara The plant, especially in its green immature fruits, contains steroidal alkaloids, which have caused poisoning in cattle and sheep. Humans may have been poisoned after ingesting immature berries. Recent experiments show that the mature red berries contain only a small amount of toxin and have little chance of harming children (Alexander et al. 1948, Cooper and Johnson 1984, Hornfeldt and Collins 1989).

    Alexander, R. F., Forbes, G. B., Hawkins, E. S. 1948. A fatal case of solanine poisoning. Br. Med. J., 2: 518.
    Cooper, M. R., Johnson, A. W. 1984. Poisonous plants in Britain and their effects on animals and man. Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, England. 305 pp.
    Hornfeldt, C. S., Collins, J. E. 1989. Determination of the toxicity of nightshade berries, Solanum dulcamara. Vet. Hum. Toxicol., 31: 363.
    Hornfeldt, C. S., Collins, J. E. 1990. Toxicity of nightshade berries (Solanum dulcamara) in mice. Clin. Toxicol., 28: 185-192.

    Immature green berries of climbing nightshade contain parent steroidal alkaloid aglycones: 50% solasodine and 50% of another aglycone thought to be soladulcidine. The total alkaloid concentration has been found to be 0.030% of dry matter in the green berries. Water gavage of dry green fruit suspension caused some deaths when given at the rate of 1.4-2.0 g per hamster (avg. wt. 190 g) (Baker et al. 1989).
    A child who probably ingested the berries of climbing nightshade died 2 days after exhibiting symptoms of vomiting, weakness, thirst, abdominal pain, dyspnea, and cyanosis. Postmortem examination showed acute inflammation of the mucosa of the stomach and intestines. An alkaloid (7 mg) characteristic of solanine was found in the liver. The evidence is not conclusive, but the child was eating blackberries in an area full of climbing nightshade berries (Alexander et al. 1948).
    General symptoms of poisoning:
    abdominal pains
    breathing, labored
    death
    dyspnea
    gastroenteritis
    lethargy
    thirsty
    vomiting

    All parts of the plant are considered toxic and their toxicity can be influenced by several environmental factors including season, climate, soil, and exposure to the sun Toxin: Solanidine, a toxic glycoalkaloid, is the primary toxin. It is composed of two types of glycodsides: solanine and chaconine Symptoms: In people, symptoms following ingestion include drowsiness, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea although in many reports of S. dulcamara ingestion people do not develop symptoms.

    Thanks for the note, I always assumed the berries, were poisonous in all growth stages. It makes sense that the plant reduces its defences when ripe, to be hopefully distributed by birds and animals. I will still consider the entire plant toxic though. The information that I have about the berries states that 40-60 will put an adult into a possibly dangerous condition. I have received a slight rash on sweaty skin, from the leaves, not uncommon among among the Solanaceae famdamily.
     
  14. Shohin

    Shohin Member

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    I have no intention to eat the berries. But thanx for the information.
     
  15. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Jacobson mentions dogs being poisoned.
     
  16. Shohin

    Shohin Member

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    I have no intention to eat poisoned dogs! (lol)
    Getting serious, this might be a problem indeed. I have a little pekingese and i suppose that the next year i will have to do something in order to keep her out of danger. Now, my seedlings are only 2 inches tall and no fruits.
    Thx Ron.
     

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