Apple tree Espalier with standard apple trees?

Discussion in 'Fruit and Nut Trees' started by Fairyjasmine, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. Fairyjasmine

    Fairyjasmine Member

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    Location:
    Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia
    Recently my employer gave me two young apple
    trees--Cortland and Spartan--as a gift. They are not
    dwarf varieties. So I'm wondering if I can still grow them in the
    espalier fashion? I was wanting to plant them in an
    area where we have a lovely view of the surrounding
    land, so I was hoping to keep them around 8' in
    height. Is this realistic or should one not attempt
    espalier with full-sized trees? What sort of problems
    will I encounter if I try to train them? I realize the
    growth is likely to be more vigorous and bulky, but I
    don't know if this will likely prove a considerable
    problem or not.

    Any advice you can offer would be most helpful. I
    don't have space on my property for full-sized apple
    trees, but I'm not keen to give them away as they were
    a gift.

    I'm on the east coast of Canada in the Annapolis
    Valley of Nova Scotia (zone 5A).

    Thank you very much!
     
  2. Andre

    Andre Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Bordeaux, France
    The size of your trees are depending on the rootstock used and not on the cultivar. If it's a dwarf or semi-dwarf rootstock, you can shape it in espalier.

    Usually the rootstock name is mentioned on the tag. Do you still have it ?

    Andre
     
  3. Fairyjasmine

    Fairyjasmine Member

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    Location:
    Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia
    Thank you very much for your advice.
    There were no tags on the trees when they were given to me, but I asked my employer where they were purchased and I spoke with the local orchard where the trees were purchased. The staff at the orchard were not able to give me the name of the rootstock used (which was rather frustrating), but they did assure me it was not dwarf or even semi-dwarf, but normal full-sized root stock. Hence my concern at trying to grow them in the espalier fashion...
    Do you have any suggestions on what I should expect when trying to grow full-sized apple trees in this way?

    Thanks,
    Laura
     
  4. Applenut

    Applenut Active Member

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    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    I keep three trees espaliered on seedling rootstock. They're about five years old, spaced three feet apart and six feet tall.

    You can keep apple trees on any rootstock any size by pruning them in the summer, once after you thin the fruit, once during the heat of July, and once right before they drop their leaves. It sounds like a lot of work but on an espalier it takes five minutes for all three trees.

    The seedling rootstocks bear heavily, recover from damage quickly, and don't mind a bit when my irrigation clogs during the heat of summer. They can live 100 years.
     

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  5. Andre

    Andre Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Bordeaux, France
    Did you graft it or are they just simple seedling ?

    Did you have any crop at this time ?

    The advantage of a dwarf or semi dwarf rootstock is a less vigorous tree (less pruning needed which induce more crop).

    If you're not interested in harvesting a lots of fruits, a seedling could be OK and could give some fruits after 10 years vs 2 or 3 with a dwarf rootstock.
     
  6. Applenut

    Applenut Active Member

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    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    The trees are grafted onto seedling rootstocks, one Granny Smith and two Pink Ladys (Cripp's Pink). The Granny Smith on the left fruited about 5 apples this year, but you'll have to ask the raccoons if they were any good or not, since they got them all (and they waited until they were just about right). Pink Lady on the right has about 4 apples on it, and I use the Pink Lady in the middle as a host tree for cuttings from dying or diseased trees we find in our local mountains we're trying to save. The fruiting times are about the same as the two Fuji's we have on M7 rootstock, which are slow bearers anyway. Dorsett Golden fruited on seedling rootstock the first year (as it does on any rootstock, as its a maniac)

    By pruning in the summer you get to see what wood is the fruiting wood and avoid cutting those limbs. I have trees on M27 that are supposed to fruit very early, but the tree is so wussy it can't grow limbs and fruit at the same time, so you have to wait a couple years to let it start fruiting or else it runts out. However, when a branch breaks off the M27, it takes forever to grow back. The seedling sprouts another one in a month or two.

    You may not have to prune as much as we do, as we have an 11-month growing season. Last year the Pink Lady on the right never did drop its leaves- the new ones just push the old ones out. And yes, it blossomed just fine in our 200 or so chilling hours.

    We occasionally lose a shallow-rooted dwarf tree during our 113 degree Julys when the irrigation putts out. Each rootstock has its pros and cons, but all are satisfactory for my backyard and are a lot of fun. Of course, we have no worries about hardiness or disease and so the concerns may be different for you.
     
  7. Spliced6

    Spliced6 Member

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    Location:
    Lower Mainland, BC
    You don't want to espalier a tree that's on dwarfing rootstock unless you want a VERY small espalier. It's natural to think of the espalier as a small tree because, if properly cared for, it does not grow very tall. But if you take into account the reach of the branches, it's actually quite a big tree. We have a Cortland that is espaliered and we keep it down to about five feet, but the branches extend about 10 feet out from the main trunk on both sides. That's more than dwarfing rootstock would grow. As an aside, the Cortlands are actually excellent apples and sadly overlooked--crunchy, juicy and sweet with just a bit of tartness. Love them.
    The one problem you might run into is selecting the right branches to train since the Cortland bears fruit on spurs. Be careful not to select fruiting spurs since they won't likely grow you much in the way of lateral runners. Also, avoid water shoots since you'll wait a long time for them to bear fruit. The ideal situation to get the process started is to bud graft (or have somebody bud graft) along the trunk where you want the laterals to be.
    Good luck
     

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