If not Arbutus unedo, what would be good?

Discussion in 'Garden Design and Plant Suggestions' started by boondoggle, Oct 21, 2007.

  1. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    Hello all,

    A newbie posting here. I have obtained a garden plan from a grad of the Botanical Garden's program, and the suggested smallish tree for the southwest exposed side of our house was Arbutus unedo. As with some Vancouver neighborhoods, we don't have a sidewalk and will be encroaching onto city property on that side of the house.

    About 100 yards south, we have a Davidia involucrata, and 50 yds from that, a Styrax japonicus.

    Try as I might, I cannot learn to love the Arbutus unedo. I realize it was selected for its evergreen properties, and interesting colours and textures. The other suggestion was Cornus kousa, but we already have one in back of the house, and I'd like bloom colour in something other than white. We just had a new roof done, and it isn't quite the zingy red it used to be - it's less warm, and more muted.

    Any suggestions for a compact tree - I must say I prefer spreading to cylindrical sorts - ?

    Many thanks
    Boondoggle
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Both drop messy fruits, which might have been a bother anyway - and like Davidia the dogwood is a wide-spreading tree requiring a large space in time. (The dove tree also produces ball-like fruits that litter the ground in season).

    Luma apiculata may appeal, or perhaps an azara. The first also produces fruits, but these tend not to be abundant here and are also small and edible.
     
  3. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    You haven't really said whether you really want to go with the suggestion of evergreen, or what qualities in this tree are important to you vs. what qualities were recommended by the designer.

    If you want to stick with a flowering evergreen, there are some tree-size rhododendrons that have really captivating foliage and of course different qualities in their flowers, and there is also Eucryphia, although it blooms white. If you're willing to dispense with flowering, there are many options in the conifer world. Pines are often upright spreading with time. Another option is something my neighbour has, a Cinnamomum, though it is in some shade here. But if you're also willing to dispense with evergreen, and given that it is a southwest exposure, there are innumerable options - birch, such as the purple one? Aren't there also narrower magnolias... maybe the yellow ones?
     
  4. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    Thanks for these good thoughts, folks. I agree, the messy fruit thing with the Arbutus is a deterrant.

    I think my designer's objectives were year-round colour and interest; red tones (she saw the house with the old roof) and harmony with the other plants she proposed (Viburnum tomentosa (a cultivar that starts with M), Phormium tenax (purple cultivars), etc.

    In terms of what I like, I love fruit trees, but that wouldn't be suitable with the rest of the scheme; I love Cercis canadensis for its great foliage, but it's huge; I am fond of many magnolias (the evergreen variety is too bronze for this colour scheme).

    I am the pitiful remnant of a long line of English gardeners, so I am good at botanical identification (within my scope) but don't know how to prune, and other essentials. I think my designer was taking that into account.

    I know the design was aiming for a tree - but since some of you mentioned shrubs, is there anything to be done with Mock Orange, or a Quince - I confess to loving those, too, but hear Quince is now scarce in BC. We lost ours to the excavator.

    Thank you again for your thoughts, you are a wonderful group!
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Luma apiculata has reddish bark and does not grow nearly as large here as Nymansay eucryphia, the principal kind (of eucryphia) offered by local outlets. Cinnamomum camphora has a history of repeatedly freezing to the ground in the Medicinal Herb Garden, UW, Seattle. However, C. glandulifera might be worth trying against your wall.

    Most magnolias grow too large, however evergreen M. yunnanensis (syn. Michelia yunnanensis) - as represented by forms cultivated in this region - is quite petite and has rusty-hairy parts to boot. There is also the ubiquitous M. grandiflora 'Little Gem', although it has its problems (in addition to being planted to excess).

    The viburnum would be V. tomentosum 'Mariesii'. If you see Cercis canadensis as "huge" then you may eventually decide the dove tree, with its long level branches was a mistake. One of these in Snohomish, WA had an average crown spread of 52 ft. in 1988 (Van Pelt, CHAMPION TREES OF WASHINGTON STATE).

    Philadelphus can be draped with clematis of suitable vigor that flower after the shrub is over. Flowering quince still seems to be a garden center staple here, if you somehow can't find one to plant now buy early next spring, when in bloom.
     
  6. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    Hi Ron,
    Thank you for those suggestions. I've been searching on the eucryphia, and it looks lovely. I was most partial to the glutinosa, for its nice fall colours. Do you know much about that one? The Luma apiculata is interesting, as well.

    I'm trying to get a good look at the C. glandulifera, but all the photos seem to focus on the interesting flowers, instead of the overall configuration of the tree. Can you recommend a website with a good photo?

    Re: size, no choice about the dove tree - that's a municipal planting. I think having another quite large specimen so close by on a standard Vancouver city lot might be too crowded.

    I welcome any other suggestions in the way of trees, you and the others are telling me about varieties I've never seen, or heard of.

    B.
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    You get autumn color from E. glutinosa but it's not evergreen. All eucryphias are choice, The Hillier Manual of Trees & Shrubs (D&C) even gushes that E. glutinosa is "One of the most glorious of woody plants."

    http://www.arthurleej.com/a-Trees of merit.html
     
  8. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Here is a photo of my neighbour's Eucryphia blooming this summer, seen through the branches of her Albizia. I thought the Eucryphia was evergreen, but will watch this winter to be corrected. Following that is a kind of fuzzy zoom photo I took of the Cinnamomum with its new foliage this spring. It hasn't sustained any frost damage in the ten or so years she's had it, but then as you can see it is in a sheltered yard, surrounded by other trees.

    Not that these are necessarily the best trees for your situation. I hadn't caught from your first posting that you are talking fairly close to the house. How far? Maybe one of the upright-growing japanese maples that reaches some 8 m (according to the maple books) might be good, and it can be pruned to keep it off the house. I saw one in Kits last night growing very close to the front of a house, and it looked pretty good even if it might not be my taste seen from inside.

    Also, how do you plan to acquire this tree? If you plan to buy from local nurseries, vs. maybe through a landscaper or mail order from the US, you might be best off to just cruise around or phone around and see what's in stock, and see what might be suitable for you. I've seen interesting selections at Southlands from time to time, at Dykhof in North Van a while back, and at Amsterdam in Pitt Meadows (Cercis chinensis Avondale was there, also Oxydendrum) last weekend. Gardenworks in Burnaby had a pretty extensive selection the last time I was there (last month) too. Art's tree nursery in Richmond on #6 road also always has lots of selection in all sizes.
     

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  9. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    Wow, Karin,

    What a smashing tree! I have been wondering where I'll find these rarer varieties. I was out at Rain Forest in Langley - I didn't know what to look for then as I was concentrating on the Arbutus and evergreen Magnolias at that time.

    Re: distance from the house, we're not talking more than say 5-8 feet away, based on my reading of the proposed layout. Vertical trees aren't my favourites, but it looks as though I'd better turn my attention in that direction. Any thoughts?
     
  10. LPN

    LPN Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Heteromeles arbutifolia (Toyon or Christmas Berry) is a nice broadleaved evergreen which can be pruned to shape your requirements. I have one and it always looks flawless throughout the year.

    Cheers, LPN.
     
  11. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    Thanks for the recommendation - I've never noticed Toyon that I know of. I've looked at everyone's suggestions (thank you again!) and am struck that though I've lost my heart to many of them, they are simply to big to be planted in the desired spot - next to the house on the fully exposed West side.

    Eucryphia looks like it will get to big, and suffer sun burn,. Katsura, Stewartia, Forest Pansy, and the Luma also spread too much - I think, and some seem quite hard to locate, based on my travels round this website.

    I love spreading trees, so I guess what I need is the suggestion of that - in terms of lightness.

    Sorry to be a pest, but such an array of ready experts is so tempting... Any other suggestions, folks?
     
  12. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Five to 8 feet is close, very close. I think your problem is one I can definitely relate to - the trees you want not fitting the space you have.

    There have been some previous threads on upright or columnar trees. But what I haven't heard you say clearly yet is whether you want evergreen or deciduous.

    If evergreen, then there are marvellous narrow conifers. There is one that I haven't definitely identified that I think might be Picea mariana or something similar - grows tall and narrow; branches do sweep upwards at tips but stay very short overall relative to height. Then there are the weeping conifers. Picea omorika (?) Bruns, Chamaecyparis nootkatensis cultivars such as Van Den Akker or Green Arrow, Tolleson's weeping juniper... They have a real presence and don't widen much if at all. (By the way, Triple Tree in Maple Ridge has many of these, though large ones with steep prices). There are also columnar conifers, such as Junipers, with steeply upright branches.

    If deciduous, there are a lot of columnar varieties. There are beeches with branches going both up and down. There are maples... even palmatum cultivars like Sango kaku or Trompenburg that apparently grow quite upright.

    There are so many options it is really hard to make suggestions. You might flip through the confers photo forum here to see if you find anything... but again, so much depends on availability. I really think you'll get further by doing a round of nurseries and then maybe discussing your options here than by hoping that the forum members will generate the right idea. Even if someone does, it isn't a sure thing that you'll find what they suggest.

    I think if I were to do such a round I would include, in addition to the places already mentioned, Cedar Rim in Langley, and maybe also Art's in Surrey. The former has everything, I think, and the latter had some Chamaecyparis nootkatensis Jubilee for a reasonable price.
     
  13. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    Hi Karin, sorry, I am definitely in the deciduous camp. I love confers in forests, but am not so keen about them in my yard. We inherited a neglected Yew, and the garden plan calls for a dwarf conifer on the other side of the house, so I'd like to keep it at that.

    I hear what you're saying about making the rounds. We're prepping our suite for rental, and that's had me tied down. Meantime, I'll root around the forum a bit more, and look at your newest recommendations, as well.
     
  14. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Small-growing trees can be planted right next to a house without consequence, as can shrubs. Most here would call Luma apiculata a shrub, if you have looked at information about performance in signifcantly milder climates it does not apply here. When at G. Johnstone's estate in Cornwall, which is as mild as coastal California I saw Pieris formosa that had the size and bearing of an Arbutus (one other than A. menziesii, which is much larger-growing than any of the other spp).
     
  15. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Just researching upright Japanese maples for my own purposes, and thought I'd mention them again as an option. 'Sango kaku' is apparently quite upright (the one with the orange winter stems) and the others that you're likely to find easily are Trompenburg and Bloodgood. There is a list of upright cultivars in the Timber Press Pocket Guide to Japanese Maples (Vertrees and Gregory) or you might search "upright japanese maples" and find some lists put up by various nurseries. Finding specialized cultivars is its own question though!
     
  16. Karalyn

    Karalyn Active Member

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    There is the Sentry red maple. Which grows straight up as a Sentry. Very beautiful.
    My neighbor behind us has a few of them planted along the fenceline. Also, around dental and Dr's offices the Sentry Red Maple is planted as well, close to the fenceline. It is slender. I think I have the name right.
     
  17. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    I'm looking now at a couple of varieties of Malus - M. sargentii "Tina" and M. adirondack.

    I like "Tina's" form better, because of the spreading branches. A number of flowering upright trees, including Prunus amanogawa carry their blooms in such a sort of bottle-brush form.

    I'll check out these maples, as well.
     
  18. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    The crabs will get too wide, are deciduous, and offer little novelty. You won't be able to get the right combination as long as the idea is in effect that a shrub/small tree has to be spaced as far away from the house as one might do with a giant-growing tree.
     
  19. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    Ron, I'm needing to plant pretty close to the house, as this tree is destined to be a focal point with the trunk about 5 feet from the house. Whatever we plant will need to be either fairly upright, or tolerant of pruning on the side that faces the house.

    I've been tooling around the various Japanese maple sites linked in the FAQ section; very few give information on spread. Should I limit my looking to dwarf varieties? Seems I'd better hop down over the border to one of the two Washington-based nurseries - unless someone knows of a place with good selection closer to Vancouver?
     
  20. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    If you are now going to plant a deciduous tree or shrub then there are hundreds of kinds of Japanese maples alone to choose from. However, I see so many Japanese maples dying back down here now that I have become wary of these. I also don't like planting things I see all over the place already, so I guess I have become weary of Japanese maples as well.
     
  21. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Cedar Rim in Langley has an excellent selection of Japanese Maples in one of their dozens of greenhouses... many varieties I haven't seen for sale before. But I think you'd have to have a reference book with you, or ask them about growth habits. They might also be able to make other recommendations.

    I don't see too many of the upright varieties planted, unless I'm simply not registering them when I see them. I am seeing fastigiate golden beeches planted by the City ad nauseum at the moment - like what, was there a sale??? Often they're planted where a spreading tree could easily have been used, which really annoys me.
     
  22. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    As mentioned by KarinL www.cedarrim.com and another www.aldergrovenursery.com. Don't think Aldergrove has a retail outlet, they're wholesale, but have nice quality plants from what I've received through the retail outlets. Good root systems, grafts, clean, seem well grown, and use their own rootstalk I think . They're trees have performed very well here since young. Should be a good selection of dwarf Japanese maples in the retail outlets next spring. Maybe something to consider, if planting an upright deciduous tree that close to the house, would be leaf drop and seeds getting into any raingutters, or maybe you will keep the tree or shrub pruned lower. Wondering what exposure does the area have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2007
  23. boondoggle

    boondoggle Active Member

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    Hi Chimera,

    I need a tree (or tall shrub) of compact habit as a feature plant to plant alongside the full-west facing side of our house. We are on a corner lot with lots of western exposure, so none of the trees that like afternoon shade will do, and we seem very constrained by the desired location, ie, proximate to the house.

    We lost all our foundation plantings due to drain tile excavations, so I am starting from scratch, looking for something that will complement a 1940, working man's Tudor Revival cottage with rolled gables, etc. Fortunately, little or no gutter problem on that side of the house, as we have fascia boards, but no gutters. We're aiming to have something grow between the chimney and the dining room window.

    I've looked at many trees now, losing my heart to those that are too big, too spreading, too tender, can't take exposure, etc etc. Still welcoming ideas...and very thankful for all contributions to date, you have expanded my knowledge of tree species enormously!
     
  24. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hi boondoggle, some you may like to consider : Fremontodendron californicum or a hybrid 'California Glory' , may be semi evergreen ; Cotinus coggygria, smoke bush, can be pruned ; Embothrium coccineum 'Norquinco Form' ; Fothergilla species ; Syringa microphylla 'Superba' ;Viburnum carlesii species or cultivar 'Aurora' ;Philadelphus 'Belle Etoile'. Pics of Eucryphia glutinosa taken today. Disanthus cercidifolius has great fall colour , but think it might need more shade and maybe a little tender.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2007

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