Planting a Balled & Burlapped Japanese Maple

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Cind1953, Sep 20, 2014.

  1. Cind1953

    Cind1953 New Member

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    I want to understand more regarding the pruning of roots with a B & B tree I want to plant. The tree is a "Fireglow". Watched several videos on container planting...but would it be the same process for one going into the ground? I am from Kansas. Cindy.
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Take away the burlap and ties, wash and/or manipulate the field soil off of the roots, look for deformities. If there are roots on the outside going in the wrong directions that can't be pulled open, held in place with rocks or stakes at planting, you may wish to cut those back. But if you find most of it is badly deformed (as is often the case, unfortunately) cutting off most of the roots will probably kill the tree. So then it becomes a judgement call, do you want to plant a tree with bad roots and settle for what you get or throw the tree away? Taking it back to the retailer and complaining about the roots is what a lot more people need to be doing, but I am doubtful that an offer of a refund or replacement (with another item, as another example of the same item from the same store could perfectly well be as bad, unless form a different batch from a different grower) is likely to be forthcoming in most cases. The common tight turnip or knot of roots right at the base of the crown dating from when the rootstock (or rooted cutting, in the case of specimens that are not grafted) was left too long in a small band or pot is especially impossible to resolve.

    Of course, much stock has been and continues to be planted with terrible roots left as they are, without this preventing years of normal looking top development afterward. The problem is when long established trees and shrubs fall over in snow or winds, or girdle themselves because their roots were in circles or knots at time of planting many years beforehand.
     
  3. Cind1953

    Cind1953 New Member

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    Thank you so much for a reply. I see you are "Digg", I have been doing that all summer. Yes, with some research into this there are those who say what you are saying. A Linda Chalker-Scott; PHD, from California says the same thing, well practically. One published PDF article called The Myth of Collapsing Root Balls
    “Balled and burlapped root balls must be left intact during transplanting”. An article I almost fell over while reading. Opened my eyes to an never-ending rabbit hole I've fallen into. Hosing off soil to examine roots, well no one does that around here. Scoring the outside of the root ball is what most will tell you.

    So I'm into late September, still warm here, Kansas City. Is there a time constraint when planting the tree, like is now okay to do the washing off of it's native soil now?
    Anyway, the Nursery told me the tree is Oregon. With that said, and it's height (and 4 inches trunk diameter.)- I can maybe tell it's been grafted at least once.. I don't have much knowledge about this. My nursery confirms the advice regarding not doing too much to the existing soil the tree was originally planted in. But hey, I'm willing to learn and try something I'm scared of.

    The pot is holding the tree up, with a decomposed burlap, probably because of shipping, had the nursery pull it up so I could see, and there are some circling roots. They recommend planting now, and not waiting because he says you want he tree to start making new roots. I thought you had to prune roots like you would if you were transplanting from a small pot to another larger pot to encourage growth...per Tricia Smyth from "Essence of the Tree" website..she super hosed most of the dirt out, as all the feeder roots were taking over before pruning and did 1/3rd removal of roots. Lots of overload of info. out there.

    Thanks for responding.

    Cindy
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Chalker-Scott works here in WA, she is on the WSU faculty. It appears garden center sales clerks tend to not be up to speed, plus management/ownership can be worried about returns on bare-rooted plants that were not kept adequately watered by customers, brought back afterward because they looked bad or died. So you may not encounter a lot of reinforcement of this and other modern methods at retail outlets, as well as elsewhere in the commercial sector. I would read all the information on the Chalker-Scott web pages as well as look at the relevant publications of Carl E. Whitcomb at college libraries to get the straight dope. Note I am not absolutely 100% with Chalker-Scott as one of her web pages makes a statement about behavior of recently planted stock that is not actually true but I am sure you cannot go wrong with the planting methods she recommends. You might also want to look at the Gardening Professors web pages she links to.
     
  5. Cind1953

    Cind1953 New Member

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    Thanks, and I will. Will working the soil loose to get most or what I can remove. (scary for me). So you did not mention as to whether or not i ought to wait to plant till the tree is absolutely dormant, and when that is. After the leaves fall? (Kansas City weather still warm here). Going on a trip soon and will question you as to whether I should wait till late Oct. Or go ahead and do it now.

    Thanks so much for being helpful with your responses, that is great.

    Kind Regards,
    Cynthia
     
  6. patdero1

    patdero1 Active Member Maple Society

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    Dig a hole slightly raised, mend soil with some pine mulch and back fill. Mulch it and water it once a week.
    Watch it grown
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Amending of planting hole back-fill was being seen to be counterproductive in organized studies as long ago as the 1960s.
     
  8. Cind1953

    Cind1953 New Member

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    So I will not use amendments, however, I did work in a little before knowing I should not, but I'd say it is only like only 1/8th in proportion to all removed soil from the hole. Anyway--back to removing all soil from the B&B tree. That's what is my only concern, but I'll do it, as well as plant the tree now instead of waiting till February to do my planting. Never waited that long to plant something. I read Linda Chalker-Scott's Planting Fact sheet, and I will follow those instructions. As well as go ahead and plant now. Kansas still warm. Oh boy, never thought I'd get worked up about planting a tree. Live and learn.

    I also looked up The "RootMaker"video and slideshow. That is so interesting. Got to learn more about that, as well as glean some of his knowledge. Trying now to find growers in my State I can purchase trees from that use this method. Lots to do. Everyone have a great night.

    Cind1953
     
  9. patdero1

    patdero1 Active Member Maple Society

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    Don't care about some studies from 1960.
     
  10. Schattenfreude

    Schattenfreude Active Member

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    Cindy,

    I'm in Independence, MO and not far from you at all. I'm a hobby gardener with 20+ Japanese maples now, some in the ground and others in pots. Here's my 2 cents:

    • Amend the soil. I don't know a soul in our neck of the woods blessed with fertile, loamy soil. Given all of the clay we have, you'll run the risk of suffocating or rotting the roots over time. So get a big bag of perlite, soil conditioner and/or compost, pine bark fines (Suburban Lawn & Garden has a great product called "Pine Bark Soil Conditioner" by Summer Field Farms that I like to use when transplanting). Don't use regular mulch from Home Depot or Lowes except as a top-dressing. Cotton burr compost also is a favorite soil amendment of mine and available most anywhere.
    • If this were my tree, I'd plant it for the winter, leaving all of the soil intact but wait until Feb. or early March to do any major root pruning. Simply dig it up, hose off the soil, and remove the roots that are badly twisted. Then plant again in the same hole. At this time you can prune some of the branches, too, depending on how much of the root structure you removed.
    Feel free to contact me privately by sending me a message above. I'm open to talking on the phone with you as well, if you'd like.

    Kevin in KC
     
  11. Cind1953

    Cind1953 New Member

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    Wow, you are just the person I was hoping I could speak with, one who knows. Grateful to you.

    I adore these trees, but I sent both trees back to the nursery. No problem for them, since I was so upset about the roots circling round, and even saw kinked ones. I don't know a lot about roots really, but am reaching out for as much info as I can get to learn... Books, articles, growers,etc.

    Your input made sense. Never heard of it put this way. Now since I'm no real expert on these trees, I am reading a couple books. Carl Whitcomb says a lot about tree roots... and of course the Japanese Maple book on selections. I never knew there was such a variety.

    I'm not really a gardening dummy, I used to plant trees all the time, per nursery instructions.. But this time I thought, hey, it's time to investigate.

    It sounds like you must have a lovely yard & garden. Goodness. I can only imagine as many Japanese Maples in my yard all speaking lovely whispers to me every day. (Smile). Maybe because I'm trying to pull it all together in the yard to make sense of space (It's not huge). I had a horseback riding accident the end of May and had a cast from my shoulder to my fingers all summer, and so towards the middle of August I just started digging up the yard as I know all too well the condition of out crusty clay soil. I also dug up all and any little volunteer rooted shrubs & trees that would get in the way.

    One of the things I had to un-do was the piles of good soil I'd amended under two trees and planted lots of ground cover & hosta plants, I read that's a no no for trees, so away I go.

    I found a nursery up in NE Kansas, near Nebraska border actually who get their young Japanese Maple stock from a place called Heritage Seeds. I am checking them out simply because they use some of their trees in pots that are actually in products called RootMaker. I don't know if this is another gimmick but I called them to see if it made a difference in the root system of these trees.
    Thanks again for responding to me.
    Take care,

    Kind Regards,
    Cynthia Petrehn
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2014
  12. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Cynthia,

    Thought I'd chime in. Although I have a lot of respect for Dr. Linda, I don't agree that amending the soil is a bad idea under all circumstances. (I don't doubt it's a bad idea in the Pacific NW though). I have around 300 maples, with about 30 palmatums growing here, and I've found that while it is possible to establish them in my heavy, wet soil without amending, fixing the soil and mound planting makes a huge difference. I plant perhaps 20 new maples each year (space not being an issue here) and I amend the soil for all of them.

    With due respect to Ron B., who is very expert, you have to know your own soil. What's possible here isn't there as it were. It sounds as though Kevin shares your conditions, giving you the huge advantage of being able to take advice from someone local who's already had success.

    cheers,

    -Emery

    P.S. Were I you I'd not put my phone number and full name out there on the net. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but... I think that's what the private message feature of the forum is for. -E
     
  13. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have removed the phone number and email address. I don't know if this is over the top or not?

    It can always be put back if Cynthia so desires.
     
  14. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Cynthia, like Kevin, I'm not terribly far from you either - Wichita - so I too understand the soil (? if you can call it that, lol) you have to work with. Also, like Kevin, I have about 2 dozen maples, about 1/3 in the ground now and the rest in pots. I also amend the soil when planting, but I also plant high too, like emery. Granted, the longest tree I've had in the ground is not quite 2 years (after we moved to our new place), but all of mine have been doing well.

    For me, when I plant, I amend the soil roughly 50/50 with a similar mixture to what I use in my pots, which includes equal parts good potting soil (I use Fox Farm's Ocean Forest, though I think I will be switching to their Coco Loco; I used it for the first time the other day and I like the texture of it better), Hapi Gro Compost (this is a composted pine bark, I would hazard to say similar to the Pine Bark Soil Conditioner Kevin uses), turface (for drainage/aeration and to promote fine root development), and traditional pine bark mulch (I use this for added bulk/aeration). I've used the Cotton Burr compost as well in the past, and Scott's Premium Top Soil (found at Lowe's, etc; it's actually quite nice for a box store top soil). The main thing is you want to increase the organic component in the planting area, as well as the drainage, the latter of which is key for maples. Also make sure you dig the hole wider/deeper than needed to allow for future root growth and spread. :)
     
  15. Cind1953

    Cind1953 New Member

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    Its been awile since you posted, had an accident & broke my right arm. I am looking now for a place that sells trees (***. maples) that are not root bound. I cannot seem to find a nursery locally that doesn't. I returned two trees that were so severely root bound last Sept. I decided to wait till early Spring and try to work on my soil areas. Typing is terrible with my left hand, as well as writing. I'm an artist, so not working is killing me. The fall is still nice here in KC.
    Your amendments you mention are looking good. Do you think these will lower the ph of a soil which is 7.4, which is what mine is per a soil test. I put on some cotton burr compost which looked good, but didn't buy near enough. Never heard of fox farms ocean forest or coco loco. There is pine bark soil conditioner at local nursery.
    Good luck and happy growing. Kevin bought some more trees he said, proud of his determination. So what or how do you handle root bound issues?
    C
     
  16. Schattenfreude

    Schattenfreude Active Member

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    Good to see you back, Cynthia. But sorry to hear about your broken wrist :-(

    Here's a link regarding soil acidity and how to make it more acid:

    http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tips/msg0308504123952.html?28

    As far as finding trees that are not root-bound........ that's a tough one, especially if you're looking for trees with some size. Given how slowly these things grow, I'm much more apt to risk some tangled roots. Planting small trees around here just provides fodder for rabbits each winter/spring. So if I do buy a smaller tree, I make sure to pot it up for several years until it gains some size.

    Kevin in KC
     
  17. Green Crown

    Green Crown Active Member 10 Years

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    We have been seeing less and less trees coming from even our most highly regarded nurseries that come ready to plant if long-term survival is a goal. Most will do fine for a decade or so, then decline and die because of poor root structure. I would guess 90% of the dead trees we remove between 8-15 years old died because of root problems originating in the nursery. Nurseries don't seem to mind because no one is going to try to return a 10 year old dead tree.

    Virtually all b&b trees we get have 6 inches or so of clay piled over the root collar that needs to be removed, along with adventitious roots growing within. After attending a talk by Linda Chalker-Scott where she documented her success in the Pacific Northwest with root-washing (bare-rooting) and subsequently pruning away poorly structured roots in excess of 50% of the total root volume we decided to give it a try with new plantings. We've since done it with five Japanese maples (palmatums) none of which have perished so far. The trees do tend to look a bit sickly the following year, but in the second year they considerably outgrow counterparts left with girdling roots.

    RonB's point about letting the nurseries know that root quality in nursery grown trees is unacceptable can't be overstated. More people need to be vocal about this. I haven't seen any positive change in BC yet.

    Some (crappy) pictures of a couple A. palmatums we root pruned, the one in the wheelbarrow is a coralbark, and the other two are before and after pics of a 'Trompenburg' (the last pic is before and the first pic is after)...
     

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  18. Cind1953

    Cind1953 New Member

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    wow-where in the world did you find a coral bark (Sango kaku) with a trunk that size? Everything I see in the kc metro area (midwest) are like child's crayola size. Thanks for posting pics. I did return two badly rootbound ***. maples. I found a greenhouse a couple hours from me that uses the RootMaker series of potting up from smaller trees.
    Cynthia
     
  19. maplesmagpie

    maplesmagpie Active Member

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    Interesting discussion. I guess that's one advantage to buying the puny 2-year grafts and liners....planting them in-ground at that stage would certainly seem to help increase the longevity of the plant.
     
  20. Green Crown

    Green Crown Active Member 10 Years

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    The coral bark had been in the ground for two years and wasn't doing well... I'm not sure of its origin, but I had been planted at the level of soil piled on at the nursery. The root collar was about 8 inches deep. We do see quite a few larger ones here but a lot of that cultivar succumb to verticillium wilt.

    If I were planting for myself, I would definitely go for very young trees... I think after 5 years or so the faster growth rate would make up for a lot of the size difference. Most people we work for, though, don't have that kind of patience. When we're planting replacement trees, a lot of municipalities have unrealistic minimum size requirements; to come close enough we need to source big b&b trees almost all of which have horrible root structure. We now just assume that half the time we'll need to root wash and root prune b&b plantings.

    Frequently after root washing we find the root system is beyond repair, at which point we call the nursery, who will then send someone on a 3 hour round trip drive at their expense to replace the tree and we then start the process over again. I think the status quo is that the trees get planted as-is and after a decade or so it becomes someone else's problem, so there is little incentive for change...
     
  21. Cind1953

    Cind1953 New Member

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    Okay then, I'm off soon to find trees that are grown in those RootMaker bag type pots that are of a smaller trunk size but healthy roots. A bit of a drive, but will be better than dealing with tree & shrub roots that are a mess, no potting up here in the city, maybe a new job title for someone willing to do it at a reasonable price?
    C
     
  22. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Cindi, you may want to consider doing some mail order if you can't find what you're wanting locally (slim pickings here in Wichita too, though a few of the nurseries have gotten a bit better recently). If you want some suggestions for good, reliable places to order from - with quality trees too, at reasonable prices - let me know, I'd be happy to pass along some of my resources. I've purchased anywhere from small 1-2yr grafts all the way up to 5ft trees; of course, shipping can be more expensive on the larger trees, but of the larger trees I have ordered, it hasn't been unreasonable for the size. A couple of the nurseries do use the fabric pots, some don't, but I've never had root issues from any of the ones I've ordered from.
     

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