unknown plant from a XVI° century drawing

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by agnamor, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. agnamor

    agnamor Member

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    I guess someone can identify this plant. This riddle has been going unsolved for five centuries ! . Please, read the attached letter and see the picture.
    thank You very much for Your kind attention,
    roberto mangani
    firenze- italy.
    View attachment lettera guanabano inglese.doc
    Guanabanosmall.jpg
     
  2. tipularia

    tipularia Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The plant has simple pinnate leaves at the bottom and morphs into what looks like compound palmate toward the top. Nightshade Solanum sp., can have deeply divided leaves that look palmate as well as simple ones on the same plant. Nightshade also has leaves in transition between the two like the one in the drawing. Look at Bittersweet S. dulcamara. Illustration
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2006
  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Seeing the list of named botanical experts who haven't been able to identify it, I can't see that anyone here will be able to do any better.

    My suggestion would be that maybe the illustration might not be as true to the original plant as might be hoped, that the artist embellished it with features that were not present in the specimen before him. Or maybe the specimen was fragmented, and the artist 'put it back together' in the wrong way? Or maybe even that it was drawn from memory, not real live specimens?

    Sometimes the veracity of old botanical illustrations leaves a little to be desired - for an extreme example, here's John Mandeville's excellent, accurate, detailed illustration of a Gossypium species from 1350 . . . captioned:

    "There grew there [India] a wonderful tree which bore tiny lambs on the endes of its branches. These branches were so pliable that they bent down to allow the lambs to feed when they are hungrie."
     

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  4. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    The copy of the letter:

     
  5. agnamor

    agnamor Member

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    Dear friends, thank You very much for Your kind replies. They are good clues to solve this mistery tale. As far as I know the drawing (sorry for its thumbnail size) is the exact portrait of a living specimen ; the painter devoted his skilful attention to its tiniest details. Jacopo Ligozzi was a famous painter who worked for the Medici family from 1577 to 1619 just making "portraits" of living plants, fruits , flowers and exotic animals owned by the Grandukes. You find some of his drawings on the net , and You will judge by yourself they are not works of fantasy, but very 'modern' scientific illustrations. ( Not the same thing of the funny Borametz, the mythologic lamb-plant). The Dulcamara has similar leaves, but it is a common species in Italy, well known in the ancient pharmacopeia. Ligozzi painted only new, showy, exotic plants worth of the honour to grow in the Granduke's garden. Dulcamara grew there, too...but as a weed! Moreover, Ligozzi's plant has a pair of long brownish stipulae athe leaf base (You cannot see them in the thumbnail) which do not feature in the Solanaceae.
    Thank You again
    roberto mangani
     
  6. Harri Harmaja

    Harri Harmaja Active Member 10 Years

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    It looks like a young plant of Golden Chain Tree (Laburnum) of the pea family (Fabaceae). The genus comprises two European species that also occur in Italy. Both of them, L. alpinum and L. anagyroides are small trees, poisonous, and are cultivated as ornamentals (as is their hybrid).

    Cheers,
    Harri Harmaja
    http://www.fmnh.helsinki.fi/users/harmaja/index.htm
     
  7. Harri Harmaja

    Harri Harmaja Active Member 10 Years

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    Laburnum alpinum with its taller leaflets seems more probable. Species of the genus Thermopsis, native to North America and Asia, are also somewhat similar but are less likely.

    Harri Harmaja
     
  8. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Sorry, it doesn't look at all like Laburnum alpinum to me; that has reliably trifoliate leaves with a much more regular and dainty shape; the painting looks a coarse thug of a plant by comparison. Given the assurance that the artist was an accurate illustrator, I think that Laburnum can be excluded fairly safely.
     

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