Good Drainage = Leaf scorch?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by xman, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. xman

    xman Active Member

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    Location:
    Plano TX USA
    Hi,

    I have about 16 maples in containers on the north side of my house (gets about a couple of hours of sun). 10 of these are planted in the same soil mix (repotted this year in Feb., 7 gallon size, 4-5 year trees). This soil is a mix of pine bark,turface,expanded shale,granite grit and a little peat. Good drainage and I check these every day to see if they require water (top inch dry), and they usually get water every other day.

    The other 6 are maples that I bought this year from different vendors, mostly from the east coast. The soil in 3 of these containers is mostly composted pine bark (broken down quite a bit) and the remaining 3 containers are a mix of pine park (50%) and loam (or topsoil, I verified this with the vendor). These require watering only once a week as they seem to hold a lot of water and stay wet.

    I am in TX were we are having 100+ for the last couple of months. All the trees get the same sun exposure.

    This is what I am noticing,

    1) All the maples in the well draining soiless mix are showing some leaf scorch(25%) even though they are types that are supposed to take more sun (e.g fireglow, red dragon).
    2) The trees in the 3 containers that contain composted pine bark that has broken down show very little leaf scorch(5%)
    3) The trees in the 3 containers that have loam or topsoil mix in them do not show any leaf scorch at all even though these are supposed to be more delicate(e.g orange dream, autumn moon) and were grown in the east coast.

    The 10 trees that are in the good draining mix get some organic slow release fertilizer once a month, while the other 6 have had the 8 month slow release osmocote(or similar chemical fert) applied.

    It seems that trees in soil that holds more water have less leaf scorch.
    Any thoughts?

    thanks,
    xman
     
  2. mjh1676

    mjh1676 Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    No real thoughts as I think you have explained it pretty well and are seeing what you should see in your climate as I would in mine.

    You and I can get away with some topsoil or loam or silt in our mix because we are so darn hot in the summer. A fast draining mix, no matter how often you water cannot provide the kind of moisture your plants need, or should I say the plants cannot get enough moisture from it.

    The trade off is you will get much faster and better root development in the fast draining mix. So, my feeling is that we grow the young plants up to a 2-3 gallon root size in a fast draining mix. Get the best root system you can and then pop them into the more dense mix when you hit 7 to 10 gallon. Even at that point you want to only add a little topsoil. If you are working with 50% topsoil I think that is way too much, but you might need 1part soil,loam or silt to hold the mositure. At 1/2 soil you will run the risk of rots and poor aeration is the winter and spring especially if they are exceptionlly wet.

    So you have to balance the summer moisture need with the consitent need to root aeration and good drainage.

    Thanks for the feedback on your soil as I have never done an experiement like that but can tell you that I have all my plants in the fast draining mix and the leaf scorch is widespread. Good roots though. And now, with the second or third flush of growth the new foliage is more tolerant. The problem is that we have to wait for in often until well into August as we spend much of July in the 100 degree range and not many maples push foliage at thost temps.

    regards,
     
  3. schusch

    schusch Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Luxembourg
    Hi, xman-
    very interesting observations. I also notice that you have leaf burn on the maples with organic fertilizer, and not on the ones with 8 month osmocote - may be not relevant?

    Can I ask what difference you make between topsoil, loam and silt? (I remember Mr Shep talks about using silt in containers in a recent thread to address the same issue.)
    Schusch
     
  4. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Hi,

    One of the things I'm learning this year is that we can have fast drainage and good moisture retention. Sorry for sounding like a commercial, but I really think this Black Gold mix I'm using this year strikes a good balance between the three things we need in a maple potting soil...good drainage, good moisture retention, and good aeration. This stuff rocks...pun intended. :-)

    Layne
     
  5. astrodog

    astrodog Member

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    Location:
    Zone 8b, NC. USA
    Hi, I am very new to your forums & very happy to be here! I am learning so much. About drainage.....I live in the Sand Hills of NC. I have never seen a place like this before. I can dig, the deepest was 7 ft. and there isn't even a pebble, it's all sand. I have been mixing homemade compost and store bought Garden Soil Mix with added slow release osmocote. It seems to work good but I need to know if I am setting my JM's up for disaster? I didn't realize about this root rot...Please feel free to advise. Many thanks
    B
     
  6. Laurie

    Laurie Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    B, the entries above actually relate to maples grown in pots, which is different from maples grown in the ground. I have compact glacial till, so in some places it is quite sandy. I dig a hole deeper than 18”, fill it and let it drain, then fill it again, and it drains in less than 15 minutes. This is after the area has been amended with probably 8"-12” of compost and organic matter. It is really challenging for most plants that I try there, but the few maples planted there are doing really well. I tried to get the drainage timed closer to 30 minutes before I planted them, however. If you have sand to 7’ in places and have amended it, do you have an idea what the drainage is like now? It sounds like this is your first season there, so how long have the maples been planted and how often are you watering? With the temperatures that we have been experiencing this year around the country, it is likely that you would have seen some scorching by now if there was a problem. Additionally, not only are your maples in full sun, but they are getting reflected heat from those stones.
     
  7. astrodog

    astrodog Member

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    Hi Laurie, You are close, this is my second full year here. I am not sure which tree you are looking at, but both of my JM's are by different ponds. The red one has traveled from Mass. w/me. I haven't been able to ID it. It was labeled Red Dragon. It is about 5yrs old. and planted by the pond 2yrs. ago. The other is the green, I also have no idea on it's ID but it is 2 yrs. here but I just transplanted to this pond in March. both are in sun all day but only completely the month of Aug....I was concerned as you mentioned about the reflective heat from the rocks. I have no leaf scorch at all even though this past week was over 100 for 3 days. I watered early morning for these days but only water 2x a week if we have no rain normally. I never did this drainage test but will in the future. Thanks for the tip. Do you think I am putting too much stress on these JM's by having them near so many rocks & in full sun? I want the effect of the maples draped over the pond. Do you have any suggestions on how to accomplish this without stressing them? I just finished reading hours of forums here about all the different problems these sweeties can have without the proper care. Thanks so much for your help.
    B
     
  8. Layne Uyeno

    Layne Uyeno Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    I'd advise staying away from mixing in slow release synthetic fert in the planing hole. The high nitrogen and salts will lead to burning the roots and the tree will suffer a little or a lot of leaf burn depending on how much fert. you added.

    Layne
     
  9. astrodog

    astrodog Member

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    Layne, What R your thoughts on homemade compost? I am normally very much against chemical fertilizers to begin with. I myself use and consume 99% organic everything...I am one of those nuts.... But I was unsure of what the ratio's would be in my organic stuff and was afraid to use it. It has tons of organic egg shells, fruit, veg., left over whole grains, leaf & grass clippings, and of course no chemicals on the lawn. What do ya think? Will this cause the leafs to burn or speed the growth up to fast? Please let me know as I was concerned to begin with. Thanks
    B
     
  10. Maple_Lady

    Maple_Lady Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    La Center, WA USA Zone 8a
    Hi, I use a soiless potting mix suggested by J.D. Vertrees. About 50% of my mix is Doug Fir bark chips. Then I add organic compost, peat moss, and a little perlite for water retention. I have been using this mixture for 22 years with good success. As to leaf scorch, it can happen to any maple. Carefully strip away the damage leaves and new ones will grow in about 3 weeks.

    Earlier someone mentioned that Orange Dream and Autumn Moon were more fragile than Red Dragon. Orange dream is a fast growing palmatum that needs to be in a larger pot than the others. I have found that some leaf burn occurs on most newly planted maples if we have a hot summer. Once the plant is established the problem seems to disappear except for an unusual hot spell. We set a new record here in the Southwest Washington where I live - 104 degrees a month ago. Bye the way, does everyone know you can't get water on your maple leaves on a hot day? If you do the leaves crisp up. Just strip off old leaves and wait for new ones. Sam eastforknursery.com
     

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