Very Ill Meyer Lemon

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by chez, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. chez

    chez Member

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    Hi Help very much needed please,
    I have a very ill Meyer Lemon, I have had for approx 4 years.
    I am In Victoria Australia, it is Summer here.
    Back in October I noticed that some of the leaves where turning yellow.
    I thought it was lack of food, so I feed it a Citrus food.
    The 1st photo was taken back in October the 2nd yesterday as you will see there, it is loosing leaves at a great rate- turning yellow and dropping off, some leaves are now developing brown marks.
    I went to a plant store and they told me that I should not be using citrus food on a container plant as it would and could burning the roots and that I should use a liquid fertilizer called Seasol.
    They also suggested the I remove part of the soil in the pot and top it up with the one they recommended. The root system looked fine pale in colour and not rotten.
    So I have been following their instructions for over a week and a half but it doesn't seem to be make any difference.
    I was watering with grey water as we have heavy water restrictions here at the moment, but they also told me lemons only like clean fresh water.
    Seems like i may be doing alot wrong.
    Reading some of the threads here, I was getting myself confused as to what the problem could be. I also read it depends on the rootstock so I found the orginal label which states rootstock Swingle.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
  2. aesir22

    aesir22 Active Member

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    The nursery lied to you. You HAVE to feed container citrus. More so than ones in the ground! And they are greedy so need a good feeding. You should be using your citrus fertilizer (please post details about NP and trace elements) In the summer months follow the instructions on the label. In winter, cut feeding to half strength if it is actively growing.

    It looks like a deficiency of some sort. I would flush the pot (run masses of water through it slowly over half an hour) then feed it with your citrus fertilizer. If you can get hold of some, add some iron and some epsom salts into the mix with the fertilizer to give it a boost of trace elements. Wait for one of the experts here to diagnose the deficiency, then treat accordingly. It can take several treatments for the tree to start showing signs of improvement.

    I would recommend you go back to the nursery and slap the person who said don't feed citrus in containers. They clearly just wanted you to buy two of their products - the seasol and the potting mix they recommended. Go and tell them they were wrong and to learn more about the things they sell lol.

    Can you give us a little info about the potting mix it is currently in? And how long it has been in that container...it may have something to do with the problem.
     
  3. chez

    chez Member

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    Hi, Just to clear up they said not to use the citrus food i have as it has to be put at the drip line and the trees branch are bigger than the pot.
    Half the pot is old potting mix which I have no idea about the other half is the new one,
    that is Terracotta & Tub Premium potting Mix by Debco cntains Debcote controlled release fertiliser & Saturaid.
    The Seasol is a liquid fertilizer.
    The Citrus food i was using Analysis is as follows as written on packaging.
    8.0% Total Nitrogen
    2.9% Phosphorus Water Soluble
    0.5% Phosphorus Citrate Soluble
    0.3% Phosphorus Citrate In souble
    3.7% Total Phosphorus
    10.0% Total Potassium as Potassium Chloride
    13.8% Sulphur as Sulphates
    8.0% Calcium as Superphospate
    Is That any Help
     
  4. StarLoc

    StarLoc Active Member

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    Ive just had a look at the seasol website, theres no info i can find on the npk of any of the products, but standard seasol and `powerfeed` are advertised as being very low in phosphorous so that they are safe on Australian native plants.

    So i would change from the seasol, and use a citrus fertiliser, letting it dry out well between each watering, then soak the pot fully to water/feed it
    When you have no direct sun, mist the leaves with citrus fertiliser at least every week, but never when direct sun is likely

    When you changed the compost, you need to know what it was changed too, they dont like alkaline compost, also if you just did the top of the pot, the roots that it feeds from are near the top and may be slightly damaged
     
  5. bertoli55

    bertoli55 Active Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Hi The links below have good info for growing citrus in Australian conditions. I use Seasol or Powerfeed for citrus in pots rather than citrus food - when you're new to growing citrus in pots you can easily overdo it with fertilizers etc.

    http://www.greenfingers.com.au/services/digging_deeper/citrus_deficiencies.htm

    http://www.greenfingers.com.au/services/digging_deeper/citrus/index.htm

    The grey water that you've been using is likely to be highly alkaline and not what citrus like at all. It would be better to use clean water.
     
  6. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Unfortunately, your local nursery just offered you general off the cuff advice, advice that had nothing to do with your tree's problem. If they do not know, it would be better just to say "I do not know". Your tree has a fungal problem. From the pictures that you provide, showing leaves with brown necrotic lesions surrounded by a yellow halo, the symptoms looks very much like Alternaria Brown Spot. However, Alternaria, is not very common on Meyer lemons. Another fungal disease known as Greasy Spot (first recognized in Australia in 1946) has some what the same leaf symptoms, and is a common disease of Meyer Lemons. Its primary effect is defoliation. Both diseases can be avoided by cleaning up leaf liter around the tree, and keeping your tree's foliage dry. If foliage remains dry, these diseases never develop. In spite of good cultural practices, fungicides are usually needed for adequate control. Fortunately, both Alternaria, Greasy Spot plus many other citrus fungal diseases, can be controlled by the same method. Copper based fungicides, applied as a spray are highly effective, and give quick results. In high rainfall areas, the disease cycle can continue year round. Concerning fertilizer. Citrus are heavy feeders, and nitrogen hogs. Obtain a good water soluble fertilizer that also contains trace minerals. Try to find a formula that has a ratio (not percentages) as close to 5-1-3 as possible. Something like 25-5-15 w/trace minerals. Fortunately, citrus are not all the fussy about what fertilizer is used as long as it supplies a higher level of nitrogen and potassium. Citrus do not use much phosphorus. Fertilize your tree a minimum of once a month. The best to this tree. - Millet
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2009
  7. chez

    chez Member

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    Hi Millet,
    Just a quick question -If I spray the tree with the copper based fungicied will it harm the fruit on it and flowers.
    If it's not a fungus infection will it matter if I spray it.
    Just wasn't sure if my photo's may have given the wrong story.(Had been looking on the net for some pictures of diseases etc and I am not sure that mine looks like the pictures I have seen) but this is all new to me.
    But I also found 3 scale and 1 gall wasp so I must be learning something.
    There maybe hope for My lemon and myself yet.
    I will try to take some more pictures when the sun isn't shine on the tree so you can see it more clearly.
     
  8. chez

    chez Member

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    Hi,
    Waiting for my tree to recover. I have some more questions please.

    Reading posts here and researching the web about Meyer Lemons and what rootstock they are on. As stated my label reads swingle so I have been reading a little and have come up with that they are incompatiable ? That they will overgrow and that the Scion can separate from the rootstock. Could this be happening to my tree.
    I will post some pictures the 1st is of the graft site and the 2nd is showing the other side plus new shoots.
    I also have a question about the new growth now. When the first shoot appeared I thought is was from the rootstock and cut it off then two more appeared and I let them grow because I looked closer and thought them seam to be coming from the same spot as the orginal shoot. ( in the 2nd photo the orginal shoot is to the right, you can see the two newer one's and the one I cut off also.
    Can you please tell me if my tree have this separation and the new growth is fine or not.
    thanks for any help chez
     

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  9. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Your tree's graft looks fine. It is not all that uncommon for a rootstock to over grow a scion. Rootstocks other than Single also eventually over grow scions that are grafted/budded upon them. Lastly, it is very easy to determine which shoots should be cut from your tree, and which shoots should be retained. Rootstock shoots, (in your tree's case Swingle) will have a trifoliate leaf (3 leaf blades on a single stem, with the center blade larger than the two side blades). If you see a trifoliate shoot growing, it will be from the rootstock, and needs to be removed. Meyer lemon is a mono leaf tree. Therefore it should be simple to determine which to keep and which to remove. - Millet
     
  10. chez

    chez Member

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    Thanks you, Millet for your help.
    Have had a looked at my tree's leaves,they are all ok single leaf.
    The one I cut off must also have been mono so I am learning by my mistakes.

    thanks again chez
     
  11. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

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    Reminder, not to over water your citrus while it heals. Dampness will encourage more fungus....
     
  12. chez

    chez Member

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    Thanks for the watering advice but I think I will have too.
    We are on heavy water restrictions here and can only water on Tuesdays and Saturday's by watering can, bucket or hose fitted with a special trigger sprayer but only between hours of 6am and 8am.
    I watered yesterday because we have already had two days in at 35c (95F) today it is 12 midday and we have already reached 38.5C (100.4F) and expected to reach 42C (107.6F) today and for the next 4 days even higher, so I think it may die if I don't water at least on these 2 days. But I am checking into the potting mix about 4inches down to see if its damp or not. So i hope i don't over water.
     
  13. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

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    I would consider a sun shelter using a reflective cloth covering the crown of your citrus, this may reduce sun scald/burn and pehaps a degree or two of lower temps...

    Send us some of your heat! It was 1 celsius today!
     
  14. chez

    chez Member

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    Sunburnt!
    How do I tell if its getting sunburnt? I didn't think of that.
    I had moved a Hoya yesterday because i found out they don't like the full sun all day oops.
    I would love to send you some heat at 2.pm its hit 41.2C not at all my favourite(iam 25 to 27 degree with a cool sea breeze)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2009
  15. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

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    Gosh what time is it in Perth?

    Sun scald will turn the foliage either silvery or brown and withery...if the leaves are dry and crisp, this is extreme heat.

    The Okanagan Valley in British Columbia can attain 40c. during July or August! That is uncomfortably hot! Send some anyway!
     
  16. chez

    chez Member

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    Thanks for that info.
    Perth at the moment is two hours behind us so its nearly 4pm here they would be 2pm.
    Its uncomfortably hot here too!
     
  17. chez

    chez Member

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    Hi, Since the last time i posted , my poor tree has been through extra heat wave.
    I have some new photos of my tree which is still not right and iam still not sure whats going on.
    1st photo shows yellowing leaves since that photo and tree lost all its leaves and grow new one at the same time.
    Kept a eye on watering because of the heat, and the sun burn.
    Have been feeding with the citrus fertilizser that I had (feed it every 2 weeks) but I also brought a box of trace elements and followed the instructions on it.
    The new leaves as they where coming out had a red to purple tinge to them and then went to a deep green not really dark green, since then they have been getting lighter as in the photos
    2nd and 3rd are photos at the present time.
    So I hope some one can tell me what iam still not doing right for this tree.
     

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  18. chez

    chez Member

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    Re: Very Ill Meyer Lemon/new question

    Following on from my last post, I thought I would try the foliar spray ( guess it was missing something)
    and was using a liquid fish fertilizer but both the tree and myself got attacked by European Wasps, so I am giving that one a miss from now on.

    BUT have been searching and have come up with Miracle-Gro water souble fertilizer NPK 20-2.2-9 with Mg, Fe, Cu ,Zn, B, Mn ,Mo -is this one ok to use on the lemon tree.(if not I will keep searching)
    Have had a lot of trouble finding your 5-1-3 ratio over here.
     
  19. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The formulation 20-2.2-9 will be fine. Feed the tree at 300-PPM. The fertilizer has all the required trace minerals except Mg (Magnesium). Therefore, you will need to apply Epsom Salts every 3rd watering. Epsom Salts does not dissolve very well in cold water, so dissolve 1-tsp in HOT water and then apply the cooled solution. - Millet (1,397-)
     
  20. GAGROWN

    GAGROWN Member

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    I recently received a 5 yr old Meyer from my mother who could no longer deal with it due to its size and her age. The tree was not doing so well when I got it and I found some useful info on this site, which will help in bringing it back. First, the scales and ants were out of control and I was able to get that that turned around. Next, I figured out that it had a 4 ft. tall sucker on it (1 of 2). thanks to the reference to the "trifoliate leaf" as a means of identifying it and removed them today. I added pics to help others identify this issue.

    pic 1: tree
    pic 2: graft/suckers (both of the smaller trunks)
    pic 3: "trifoliate leaf"

    thanks for the help and hope this helps others.
     

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  21. redstepchild

    redstepchild Member

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    REPOT the dang thing!

    Oh my goodness, if its not happy, give it a new, bigger/ deeper pot with some good, slightly sandy dirt.

    All this fuss and I seriously think the lemon is just trying to say "I'm not happy where I am"..

    Keep it simple.


    As for the new soil, might want to make sure its on the sandier side. Lemons like to play in a little sand. They don't like to swim in water so make sure the bottom has good drainage.


    You can go buy all this random stuff but you will still end up scrappin the dirt and just getting a new pot so start there.

    DONT stick it in the full sun for about a week after you pot it. DO water it with clean water. I just leave a large plastic container out to catch water from the rain to help save on the water bill. Put a net over it to minimize bug infestation.


    The key thing to lemons is GOOD DRAINAGE. The roots DO NOT like to SWIM in their bath water. They like frequent "showers" that drain through. Adding some sand helps.

    Lemons like their starbucks coffee grinds.

    Also, FULL SUN but if you have an outdoor air conditioning unit, stick it in front of the "intake" vents for the unit.. the unit pulls in a slight breeze that seems to make for a happy lemon tree.
     
  22. cagreene

    cagreene Active Member

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    hello, i just noticed your post(s) on lemon trees, and i wanted to add my two cents...i have been growing lemon trees from seed for about 22 years. my first tree, which was a 3 tree braid, grown indoors, had to be left behind as it was too big to be removed from the 3 story glass vestibule.
    when you use a organic fertilizer, you can expect up to 2-4 weeks before it becomes available to the plant, so i wouldn't recommend using organics for trouble shooting. through trial and error, i have learned that these plants love coffee grounds, so i have put at least 4 inches of used grounds in each bucket.
    my trees are all from seeds found in the fruit i purchase at my local grocery store, they have 1-2 inch long thorns on them and they spend the mild winters here outside.
    when using Epsom salts, be careful, as most sights give the measurements for usage in weight, 10g per gal, (10g=1/4th teaspoon, as its VERY heavy) food grade is best, but if you have to buy it from a drug store i recommend buying crystallized himalayan salts, with 84 trace minerals. its all natural, mined from miles beneath the mountains, and my trees love it.
     

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