Red Japanese Maples in Tropical Countries???

Discussion in 'Maples' started by illidan75, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. illidan75

    illidan75 New Member

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    Hi,
    Anyone has any experience planting Japanese Red Maples in tropical countries? I live in Malaysia where it is hot & sunny the whole year. We get a good amount of rain too.

    I have previously bought a japanese red maple tree. It was around 5' high and red / burgundy at the time of purchase. Soon after planting it, it turned green. I do not know what the species was nor do i think the workers at the nursery. They only sell things at hefty prices but know nothing about them.

    I went back to the nursery and all they say is i should cut off all the leaves and it will turn red again. And this is to be repeated like,,, forever!!! Ofcourse by now I know this is nonsense, and that the species is not suitable for tropical countries.

    I have read that bloodgood, fireglow, crimson queen, inaba shidare (etc, etc) hold good red color even in summer. BUT, will they hold year round? Anyone has experience? Or any advice?
     
  2. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    Most of them will green out a bit in summer but that isn't your main problem. Japanese maples need a period of cold when they go dormant, which it sounds like you don't have. I don't believe they can survive without it. I'm not 100 percent sure on this but that's what I would look into before you try to plant another one.
     
  3. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Yes, same as with hardy fruit trees like apples the first main point when attempting trees from temperate regions in tropical areas is whether or not the dormancy requirements of the trees will be met. To grow trees with a need for what are called chilling hours you have to be in a location that experiences 39 degrees F in a seasonal pattern every year. Each kind of tree has a minimum number of these hours it must experience every year after planting or it cannot continue to function.

    I have seen on the internet where people have had peach trees remain alive for more than one year in low elevation Hawaii but photos indicated to me the trees were "confused", with part of the tree in leaf and other parts bare at the same times. And I have not seen it demonstrated that specimens so located were functioning adequately for the 10-20 years said to be the normal productive life of peach trees.
     
  4. woodschmoe

    woodschmoe Active Member 10 Years

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    On the Big Island (Hawaii), I read of an apple grower who had to manually defoliate his trees to fool them into dormant mode. Don't know if the same could apply to Japanese Maples....it is an interesting tale in wanting what you haven't got, though: surrounded by pineapples, cherimoyas, mangos and breadfruit, extraordinary efforts were made to grow an apple.

    This grower was at some elevation, however, so perhaps such efforts would be futile closer to sea level.
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    It having the world's tallest mountains (when measured from the ocean floor) Hawaii even has snow at the highest elevations - there should be places where apples are being grown without anything other than the temperature regime being adequate.
     
  6. Jeff Chang

    Jeff Chang New Member

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    Hi,

    Can you please share where you bought the Japanese maple from? Which nursery? I wish to purchase one as well. I am located in PJ. Thanks.
     
  7. Jeff Chang

    Jeff Chang New Member

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    Hi,

    Can you please share where you bought the Japanese maple from? Which nursery? I wish to purchase one as well. I am located in PJ near Kota Damansara. Thanks.
     
  8. Joshua C

    Joshua C New Member

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    Hi. I know can be very frustrating not being able to grow some of your favourite dream trees or plants. Maybe Acers can be grown in hillsides which you have that has a cool temperature between 16C to 23C. During rainy season may set things rich. However if you live further down, temperature may hit around 30C. Not sure the Acer can live for a very long time. I would suggest that you grow them by seeds when curiosity hits you with the idea of growing Acer trees. Play save with seeds. From there through trial and errors you will learn and probably satisfied of trying. Wish you all well and experimenting them.
     
  9. Wai

    Wai New Member

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    illidan75, I'm experiencing the same problem as well. Have you found a solution to your tree?
     
  10. Ah Boy

    Ah Boy New Member

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    Hi Wai,
    I bought a pot of maple (~40cm high) with grafted rootstock from a local nursery in Sep 2016. The leaves were initially reddish and rather large (~4cm) but soon turned dark green as the pot was placed in a shady place to prevent sun scorch. By Dec 2016, new leaves were smaller (< 3cm) and fewer. Suspecting the slow growth to be due to winter dormancy requirement, i trimmed the branches and removed all the leaves except for a few healthy ones. The maple remained dormant till Mar this year before new leaves started to grow in vigor again. It was an unexpected surprise for me as i had given up hope on the maple ever recovering. Guess the rootstock may have helped keeping the maple alive in the tropics. Then again, i could be lucky. Only time will tell how long the maple will survive...

    One word of advise, keeping the maple alive as long as possible would be more important than fretting over the leaves turning green. :-)
     
  11. Michigander

    Michigander Active Member

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    The problem with speaking "generally" is that for every rule there is also some exceptions to the rule. It's a fool's errand, and I qualify. Generally speaking, any plant that will live in temperate zones (in the open ground) are "hardy (to some zone)", and must have a quiet period typical of that zone. Japanese maples are hardy in the USA from US Zones 5 to 8
    They need protection from direct sun even in zone 4, and they are almost always an under-story tree. Their thin leafs are very vulnerable to desiccation, too, so areas with low humidity are problematic. If you wanted to try one as a bonsai-sized tree, maybe you could do it, maybe not. Being close to the equator is a problem that I have no idea how the plant would respond to your photoperiod(s). The growing cycle of hardy plants follows this general pattern: The Quiet Period, ~the plant has completed all its propagation duties; leafed out, flowered, matured seeds, had a second flush of growth, set buds for next year, and in response to gradually diminishing photoperiod and intensity of sunlight in combination with reduced water (rain) and falling temperatures, begins to lose leaves, thence to having no leaves. It will grow roots anytime growing conditions allow, summer, winter, spring and fall. The quiet period is arrived at through this whole set of conditions where the process of shutting down begins in August and continues into late October or November, depending on latitude, which is for me late summer through late autumn. You can't fool the plant into growing fast and loose in autumn by fertilizing heavily and using summertime levels of artificial lighting (do you even have the concept of "autumn" in Malaysia?) Sometimes, we get an early frost in September and all the leafs drop within two weeks. That doesn't hurt the process because it is foretold that the leafs on the tree are really, "temporary" and have done their job. They are strictly one season, and one season is ~<180 days, and they are worn out and look like it at the end of summer.

    We here in the temperate zone try to fool tropical trees by keeping them in a greenhouse in the winter, but that's a fool's errand, too. After having a pleasant summer outside from early May to late September, They too, are adjusting to dimming sunlight and shorter photoperiod such that they only have to see three or four weeks of really reduce sunlight in the greenhouse (only infrared passes through glass; all the ultraviolet is filtered out), and they drop all their leafs. Whoomp! We can possess tropicals, but they look pretty bad nearly all winter. I suspect that you could possess a (bonsai sized) Japanese maple if you put it in a small refrigerator for a few months at ~35° F, but you still have the unknowable factor of exactly when do you start to mimic "autumn".

    Defoliating is a process used in bonsai to reduce the leaf size and increase ramification (increase the number of terminal twigs by forcing back-budding). If you are not well-versed in bonsai, stop removing leafs except to remove dead/dying leafs. A leaf with any green is still on the job. It may be ugly, but photosynthesis is still operating. There is a bud in the axil of each petiole. That is next year's set of leaves. The plant must grow long enough this season to mature that bud for next season. Failing to grow long enough is terminal. You may or may not have that as a problem because the tree may not be able to survive your high temperatures. I don't even have a guess what temperature is too high because I don't know how Japanese maples would respond to very high temperatures in combination with very high humidity. They may be off-setting penalties, if you're lucky. Whatever else is true, you should try seeding them. You can trade seeds easily enough. I am seeding them right now and we could do a straight trade for something you have, each of us just paying postage. Try to plant seeds every month, or so. You might find that you can "wear out" your leafs by about ~180 to ~220 days and get your tree into the refrigerator before, and thence during, your hot season. Of course, I am unable to get clear in my mind whether you have no winter, but two summers, or exactly how "seasons" come and go so close to the equator. Your short days are probably longer than my long days. Anyway, you could try to be a substitute for frost! Having kept your tree out of direct sun, and seeing that it has shiny little buds in the axils (indicating maturity), and seeing that the leafs look beat up, and having grown those leafs ~180 days or so, you would defoliate. This is done by cutting each leaf off at the base of the leaf, leaving the petiole in place. The petiole guards the bud so removing the petiole may damage the bud. Leave it on, it will look crummy, but it's important not to damage the bud and the petiole will be kicked off when the bud is ready to inflate. You need to begin to reduce watering at some point before your defoliation day mimicking my late summer and autumn . Your guess is as good as mine as to when.

    The tree will begin to have buds swelling at some time in the refrigerator. This is an indication that the quiet period has been satisfied. Theoretically. Move it to a growing place and watch it leaf out. The leafs are very, very tender at that stage and will crispyize on the edges if they see any of your sun from Hell. They like light, but no direct sun. If you burn the leafs at that point, you will have just a few secondary buds further down the twigs that will become primary and leaf out, so don't throw the critter in the trash if you screw up the first set of leaves.

    If this sounds like it's too complicated, just remember you're doing real discovery work here.
     
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