Lemon tree woes - lack of leaves, yellowing, skinny branches

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by zagadka, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. zagadka

    zagadka Member

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    G’day all,

    Last year in November I bought a lemon tree, I think it may only be a couple of years old because it’s still quite small.

    The problem I have is that it isn’t growing much at all. It’s still the same height and has only sprouted 2-3 new leaves since I bought it.

    The tree is about 40cm high from the trunk base and has 11 leaves which are on average about a third smaller than a standard computer mouse. It has 2 branch stems so that the whole tree forms a Y shape. On one branch stem the flower petals are falling off and now turning into small fruits and on the other one the flower buds haven’t opened yet.

    his is the 3rd time it has borne flowers. The last time 1 lemon started to grow and did for about 2 months until one day it just dropped off.
    Over the past few days the leaves have slowly started to turn yellow, and small light brown patched have appeared on a couple of the leaves.

    I must admit that I have only given it food every 2 months as advised by a sales assistant in a garden shop (I also think now that the food isn’t suitable at all) I water it only when the top inch or so of the soil is dry. The pot height is about half the height of the plant and in diameter it’s about an inch larger than a CD. There are no drainage holes in the bottom of the pot.

    I realize now that I need to repot it in a proper pot and give it some proper food. How big should the pot be and what food should I be aiming for?

    I live in Poland, and the climate isn’t really super. There isn’t a lot of humidity. On average, because we are in summer now, the tree gets about 6 hours of direct sunlight a day. But over the past week or so it has been much cooler. In the winter I keep it in the living room by the window and water more sparingly. The room is kept warm during the winter.

    One problem also may be that there are very bright street lights outside the window, should I bring the plant in at night and put it in a dark room? What can I do to promote more leaf growth and to keep it short and bushy?
    I know this was a lengthy post, so I really appreciate any replies:)

    Stephen.

    P.s I don't have a camera so I can't post a pic.
     
  2. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    There are no drainage holes in the bottom of the pot. BIG PROBLEM!
     
  3. IMLOL

    IMLOL Member

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    Proper drainage is the most important thing for citrus trees. I had similar issues last summer. The budding and fruit from such a small and probably young tree are signs of stress. The yellowing and dropping leaves are probably in response to root problems. Citrus trees will compensate for root loss by dropping all the leaves on a branch.

    I would strongly recommend re-potting the tree with a citrus/cactus blend of soil. Avoid peat and others that hold moisture. Just shake some of the soil from the outside of the root ball and re-pot it in the new soil. Do not cut the roots or shake all of the soil out. More trauma will cause more stress.

    The pot must also have excellent drainage. If necessary, drill some holes in the bottom of the pot or buy a small strawberry pot.

    For watering, I usually wait until the pot feel light and the soil is very dry before watering. You don't have to worry about citrus getting too dry. they will not wilt like other plants. The leaves will begin to curl a little and hang a little limp when it needs water. I will feed with every other watering. My watering schedule changes depending on the season and whether it is inside or out.

    I have found that starving and watering generates more growth than constant watering for my key lime tree. It took my tree about 3 months to stop dying off and start recovering from its 90% leaf loss last year. It is doing great now with new soil, a better pot, and proper watering.

    Good luck,

    -Eric Lysczek
     
  4. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    zagadka, The most glaring problem is that you are using a container that does not have drainage holes. I won't go into to this much, as I believe that you already realize that this situation must be changed. If you do not feed a citrus tree, the tree will not, nor cannot, put forth new growth. Fertilizing, a containerized citrus tree once ever two months (60 days) does not supply nearly enough nutrition to promote growth. You need to fertilize this tree at the very very minimum once a month, but once every two weeks is highly recommended. I cannot recommend "starving" a citrus tree. When you water a containerized tree water it well, so that at least 10 percent of the water drains out of the bottom holes, then do not water again until the top inch or two feels dry. It is now summer in Poland, and you are wasting the best time of the year, for obtaining plenty of growth for your tree, by not fertilizing. I believe your tree's main problems are, the container that you are using, and vastly under feeding the tree. Don't waste any more of the summer, get the situation turned around. You do not want a weak under nourished tree going into winter. There are many posting on this forum concerning fertilizing citrus, read them. If you take good care of your tree, your tree will take care of you. Good luck to this tree. . - Millet
     
  5. zagadka

    zagadka Member

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    Thank you everybody for the advice:)

    I've repotted the plant into a pot that's a little larger with 5 drainage holes in the bottom and some stones in the bottom. I used citrus plant soil, and have watered and fed the plant using citrus plant food.

    I have a new problem though, I have watered the plant, but the water is just sitting on the top? It's as if the soil has turned to mud. No water is coming out the bottom. Are the draining holes not big enough?

    Thanks once again.
     
  6. IMLOL

    IMLOL Member

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    Your drainage holes may be getting clogged by soil. You may need larger holes, 5mm diameter at least. Water should run fairly quickly through the soil and should never be seen pooling at the top for more than a few seconds after watering.

    If your drainage holes are on the bottom, make sure the pot is raised up high enough for water to flow out easily. I put some holes on the sides around the base as well.

    After allowing ample time for drainage, I turn the pot on its side after every few waterings to see if any water will run out of the pot. I have had to unclog my drainage holes a few times.

    -Eric
     
  7. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    What type of growth medium did you use? NEVER use regular soil (dirt) in a container. If the water is setting on top of the medium, and not passing through, the problem is probably not the drain holes, it must be the medium that you are using. It must not be a fast draining medium. A good growth medium is 3 parts bark or CHC chips, 1 part peat moss and 1 part coarse sand. Putting rocks in the bottom of a container does NOT promote drainage, it retards drainage. Rocks do not provide a good container situation, and should NOT be used. This has been discussed on this forum many times. Look up the words "perched water table" in the search section of this forum. - Millet
     
  8. drichard12

    drichard12 Active Member 10 Years

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    zagadka: I use CHC (Coconut Husk Chips) and Miracle-Gro potting mix 4-1 for growing citrus in containers this is my preferred mix. On the other hand I found a local in my area growing a Meyers lemon in regular garden dirt using a 3 gallon container. (I found this to be interesting)
     
  9. zagadka

    zagadka Member

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    I used a soil from a company called substral the soil was for "citrus" trees. However i'm not sure if it was really suitable.

    It's hard to find decent soils where I live because there aren't many garden stores, and the places that do stock the stuff mostly stock similar average quality products.

    http://www.substral.pl/specjalistyczne.php <---there's no info about the contents of the soil on the website, nor is there anything on the bag.

    I've been giving the tree about 8 hours direct sunlight over the past few days, and haven't given it anymore water since it was repotted. The flowers have dropped off on the one side and there are 3 mini lemons left, the others fell off. On the other side of the tree the flowers are now blooming. One leef has a yellowish tip, but generally the leaves are looking better now.

    The soil is drying out now. In a couple of days I will removethe bricks from the bottom of the pot and add more holes. Are there any recommended european products that I could use for soil? Maybe I could order something.

    *extra* this is the food i'm using for my tree---> http://www.agrecol.pl/?n=products&t=1&pr=131
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2008
  10. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    I use plain pine bark I crumble by hand 4 parts bark to 1 part peat moss or commercial potting soil, you can also add 1 part coarse sand or perlite.
     
  11. zagadka

    zagadka Member

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    Hi,

    Over the last couple of days the 2 brown leaves are getting worse, and something else has happened to the other leaves. The other ones have become ever so slightly translucent and the veins seem to be very prominent. I've attached a couple of pictures. Should I just wait it out and let the plant take care of it self? Or should i intervene somehow?
     

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  12. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    The damage looks like either salt or sunburn to me--nothing you can do about it at this point. The other leaves look like they might have a minor mineral/nutrient deficiency which should improve if you feed the tree with a fertilizer with trace minerals.
     
  13. zagadka

    zagadka Member

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    As a little update, most of the leaves have fallen off the tree now, and the last remaining green leaf started to turn brown today. I haven't watered the tree for about a week and the soil is still a little moist. I've been keeping it in light shade over the past few days. I'm just hoping some new leaves will grow. Will this be possible even if the other leaves fall off?
     
  14. drichard12

    drichard12 Active Member 10 Years

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    I strongly suggest that Millets and Skeets postings is perhaps the the best information your going to recieve for help. You may still have time to save your lemon even if it is leaf less as long as the wood is still green and you follow the advice thats been given. Best of Luck. Dale
     
  15. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    It sounds like root damage from overwatering. It is not the actual frequency of watering that causes the problem. It is the fact that your soil holds too much water too long and it excludes oxygen. I would repot now with something that hold more air. If you can't find pine bark or CHC, use something with lots of perlite, but if you are to save the tree, you must get something that will provide oxygen to the roots.

    When you repot, if some of the roots are brown and mushy, remove them as they contain the fungus that causes root rot. Leave any roots that are firm and cream colored.
     
  16. StarLoc

    StarLoc Active Member

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    you could water it with water / hydrogen peroxide solution i use a couple of spoons in a bucket of water and soak over wartered plant roots/pot in it for a few minutes ,i have saved a few ill plants like this

    it has a rapid effect,after wartering with it then let the tree dry out totaly before re-wartering with fertiliser , the peroxide provides the oxygen and kills mould and rot in the pot , i usualy treat a plant a few weeks later even if it looks like it is recovering
     
  17. zagadka

    zagadka Member

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    Thankyou all for the advice:)

    The plant has lost all of its leaves now, I checked the roots and the seem ok but to be honest im not really sure how the should look. I wouldn't say there is a large amount of roots maybe the size of 2-3 tennis balls, but none of them are brown and mushy. They look a little yellowish, but I think it may be the soil. They do seem quite woody though, and there are 2-3 quite thick roots. The soil is completely dry now.

    I managed to find one shop that stocks perlite and have ordered some but it maybe be a week or so before it arrives. I couldn't really find any pine bark at all. Should I water and feed the plant whilst waiting for the perlite? Or just leave it for now and maybe wait for new leaf growth (if there will be any)

    I suppose what I should do ultimatly is repot again in a smaller pot, with plenty of holes with a soil mixture of perlite, some kind of bark and sand. Can I use cactus soil as the main soil as part of the mixture?

    Thanks again:)
     
  18. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    As far as commercial mixes, Orchid mix with a little added peat moss or regular commercial potting soil (about 4:1) would be best. Cactus is better than regular commercial potting soil, but is still a little too fine and if they have the pH adjusted for cactus it may be too high for citrus.

    If your roots are yellow or cream colored that is good--that is what healthy roots look like. As for now, I would water sparingly and keep it out of the sun. If the roots are healthy there is a good chance it will recover.
     

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