Need Help Deciding on Maples!

Discussion in 'Maples' started by FOCO, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. FOCO

    FOCO New Member

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    Well its winter again, which means I’m spending my free time deciding what plants I want to purchase for the spring. I’ve been growing Japanese maples for about 4 or 5 years now, all in containers (air pots), due to the fact that I don’t live in the most idea area for growing these plants - Front Range in Northern Colorado. Even with growing them in containers I still face some complications. Our air is very dry – nice for humans, but most plants don’t like it, we're at about 5,000 above sea level, so we have some pretty strong sun rays, and we have some major temperature swings from day to night. But I love these trees none the less and continue to add more to my collection every year. I actually haven’t lost very many, so they seem to be OK with the conditions I’m giving them.

    I’ve been using the UBC forum as an information source for quite a while now, but haven’t ever made a post... I guess there is no time like the present. I’ve came up with a list of maples I’m considering purchasing for this upcoming spring, but the list is way too long. I was wondering if some of you would be willing to give me advice on which maples from my list you like the most. Unfortunately, I’m never able to see any of these trees in person because most nurseries around here never carry Japanese maples, and if they do, the selection is limited at best. So most of these I would be growing in containers, but I’m thinking about planting a Shirasawanum in my yard this year, so I’ve included a few of those on my list too.

    So here are the trees I’m considering:

    1) Shin deshojo
    2) Amber Ghost
    3) Komache hime
    4) Villa Taranto
    5) Peaches and Cream
    6) Tsukushi gata
    7) Geisha Gone Wild
    8) Ruby Stars
    9) Shojo no mai
    10) Twombley’s Red Sentinel
    11) Ariadne
    12) Phoenix
    13) Iro Iro
    14) Umegae
    15) Shigure bato
    16) Sunset
    17) Royale
    18) Shu Shidare
    19) Flavescens
    20) Brandt’s Dwarf
    21) Elizabeth
    22) Wilson’s Pink Dwarf
    23) Manyo no Sato
    24) Koto no ito
    25) Shu Shidare
    26) Chantilly Lace
    27) Hana Matoi
    28) Aratama
    29) Chishio Improved

    The Shirasawanums I’m looking at are:

    1) S. Jordan
    2) S. Mr. Sun
    3) S. Moonrise

    Any advice that anyone can provide would be much appreciated.

    Thanks!
     
  2. maplesmagpie

    maplesmagpie Active Member

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    Location:
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    I can give you feedback on some of them....

    1) Shin deshojo

    I'm thinking of this one, too. I've looked at Chishio Improved, but I'm not convinced the form of C.I. is as desirable as Shin deshojo. I think I'm going to go old school. ;)


    6) Tsukushi gata

    I ordered a 4' tall Tsukushigata from Conifer Kingdom this past year, after reading so many people saying it's one of their favorites. I do like it a lot. The leaf shape is great. Check out Umegae, too. Very similar to Tsukushigata, but green. I have both, but my Umegae is much younger.

    8) Ruby Stars

    Mine is only about three years old, but I'm so unimpressed with this one. The leaves are sort of a drab green, the red goes away quickly, and the leaves on mine (maybe because it's young?) aren't very star shaped at all. I moved this out of the more visible part of the garden.... if it turns into something pretty later I might move it back.

    11) Ariadne

    I was given this one as a freebie last year. I think if I were going to pick out my own variegated leaf I would have picked out Ukigumo or maybe Amagi shigure. Ariadne (apparently) puts on a good show in the spring, but for the rest of the summer it was drab. It was a gorgeous red in the fall, though-- I'll give it that.

    14) Umegae

    Ah, I should have read down your list! It's like the greener twin of Tsukushigata. I like the colors of it. If you go to Davidsans' website, he has an article on why he likes it. It was the form of it, in addition to the leaf shape, that drew me to it.

    17) Royale

    ...I've been curious about this one, but if I go for a red dwarf I think I might hold out for Verna Jean. I've been opting for more green dwarfs recently, so that my garden colors are more soothing. One of my favorites is Capercis Dwarf. Really pretty shape and very bright, fresh green color.

    20) Brandt’s Dwarf
    21) Elizabeth

    ...again, if you're looking for something that's a little more hardy (since a lot of these red witches brooms seem to have issues), check out Verna Jean. I've heard very good things about Elizabeth, but again... I'm opting for more green dwarfs.

    24) Koto no ito

    I had a spot this year that came down to Koto no ito or Kihichijo, and I chose Kihachijo. Still wish I had a spot for Koto no ito, though. It has such a pretty form and color.

    29) Chishio Improved

    See comment above. I wish a more experienced JM gardener would chime in on what they've noticed with the C.I. versus Shin deshojo. Especially regarding form.

    The Shirasawanums I’m looking at are:

    1) S. Jordan
    2) S. Mr. Sun
    3) S. Moonrise

    I have Moonrise, and it's a lovely little tree. It held it's orange blush of color through most of the summer. I do wonder if I would have liked Autumn Moon better, though-- it looks very much like Moonrise, but Autumn Moon seems to give better fall color. The Moonrise just fades and turns brown very quickly. the other Shirasawanum I've seen up close and liked is Red Dawn. VERY pretty in person, at least when I saw it in the late spring.

    Hope that helps!

    If you don't mind me asking, what are your favorites of the JMs you currently have?
     
  3. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Wow...One of the eternal questions? next to 'how long is a piece of string' you can ask a thousand different JM growers which is the best or most attractive and you will always get a thousand different answers!!

    I would't presume to be qualified or have enough knowledge about JM to tell anyone which is the best to keep/grow in their gardens/areas/countries as we all know that what might thrive in one continent can be toally unsuitable in your country area /zone.

    All i can say is pick the JM which 'YOU' like and the ones that shout at you in your garden 'look at me over here' and you keep going back to time and time again and looking at constantly at the form/shape branch and leaf structure and colour of the tree, is this what you are looking for.

    Try and see them before you buy if possible in the winter when dormant,look at the form of the tree and imagine them years down the line,don't forget you need something to look at during the winter months as well,is it a nice green/red coloured branch/bark does it weep nicely does it peel etc etc. Go again in spring see the new growth and new leaf cover then finally the fall is this the colour you like will it blend in with your others or will you end up with a garden full of red trees in the fall (fallen into this trap before)

    Also realise that alot of the cultivars are very similar to each other ie: Shin deshojo,Beni Maiko,Deshojo,Chisio improved to name just a few. Have had all of these over the years and the only two i have left now are Deshojo and Beni Maiko these performed the best for me and provide more interest.

    No doubt lots of other people will have different ideas suggestions etc, but never forget the best JM to pick love and care for are always the ones that will put a great big smile on your face during the years to come !!! :) :)

    That's what keeping Japanese Maples is all about.
     
  4. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Isn't this the boat we're all in right now? Making our list, checking it twice - and trying desperately to pare it down, lol. I COMPLETETLY understand where you're coming from; I'm in Wichita, KS, and while there are several nurseries in town that do carry maples (and of course the box stores; you can occasionally score a nice/different one there, I have), most carry the same old same old. And yes, sometimes the old standby's are great, but I'm like you, I want the different, the unique. So, I've had to resort to buying online - like you, I'm guessing - and I would like to recommend a few sources that you may or may not know about:

    - Topiary Gardens, Marcellus, NY - Diana (owner) is fantastic, grows great plants at great prices and has excellent customer service, plus a 1yr warranty on all her plants. She'll ship anything of any size, if you want it, and I've gotten some really nice, larger and/or harder to find cultivars from her. One bonus for you, her climate will be quite similar to yours, so she can more accurately tell you if a certain will or won't do well for you. Call or email, because she often has stuff kicking around that isn't on her website; tell her Andrea sent you. :)
    - Whitman Farms, Oregon - Lucile (owner) is my west coast Diana, lol. She also has a 1yr guarantee on her trees and stands by it. Also, if there's a cultivar you're interested in, she'll send you a picture of the tree - something most nurseries don't do - so that you can say if you like the form or not. Again, lots of stuff not on her site and I'd call first; sometimes she doesn't get back to emails, especially during the busy time.
    - Garden Design Nursery, Georgia - David (owner) can grow large, fantastic trees in a very short time (other nursery owners I've spoken to attest to this, and are very jealous, lol), good selection, nice trees, great guy to work with.
    - Conifer Kingdom, Oregon - Great selection, sometimes you can snag a great deal, and Brent and Sam are very helpful.
    - Mr. Maple, N. Carolina - Matt and Tim (owners) have a huge selection, sometimes some quite rare ones too, and excellent customer service.

    There are others of course, but these are the ones I reach out to first when I'm looking for a tree. Now, to your actual question. :)

    1) Shin deshojo - No experience with this one, but I do have Otome zakura which is in the same group (ie, hot pink in spring). This one has proved to be quite hardy for me, takes full sun very well (and Kansas summer sun is very intense and HOT), and is overall a nice tree. Mine sat for a couple of years doing apparently nothing, and suddenly last year turned into Medusa, easily doubling its height - now it just needs to start filling in, lol. Good balanced growth though, not thin and whippy.

    4) Villa Taranto - Only got this last spring (from Diana), but I do love it. Seems to be hardy, took a lot of sun during the day too and didn't flinch when the heat came.

    6) Tsukushi gata - LOVE this one. And remember what I said about being able to score some great deals from Conifer Kingdom? Well, they still have this one on sale for half price (5g for $40); this is where I got mine from and I was NOT disappointed. If you order it though, make sure you order a few small trees right away to make the most of your shipping - there's plenty of room inside that big box. ;)

    16) Sunset - Are you referring to the dissectum Sunset? If so, I do like this one. I had a nice one for a couple of years, but our one really scorching summer got to it (it had been freshly planted in a full sun location, so I think this was a factor). I did like the color on this one, I would recommend it.

    23) Manyo no sato - Also LOVE this one, the leaves and coloring are so unique. Mine does end up fading to a green on green in the summer, but the uniqueness of it overshadows this (I still find it attractive). Highly recommend.

    26) Chantilly Lace - On my to buy list as well, once I find a really nice one, I'll spring for it.

    27) Hana matoi - Really like this one. I've been playing around with just the right sun exposure to keep the color without frying it here, hopefully I've found the right spot not. I planted mine late summer of 2013, and that winter the rabbits decided how I'd protected it (large tomato cage with a pillowcase over top and burlap wrapped around the bottom half) was just perfect for raising a litter underneath. Mama dug halfway under the rootball too, and it just kept on trucking.

    For the shirawanums, I'm really wanting to get Johin and Sensu (already have Kawaii which I love; if you don't have this one already, you should).

    I would like to recommend a few trees, based on my own experience (not sure what you currently have):

    - Shinju - I LOVE LOVE this tree. It's an upright green, but the spring color is so fresh and clean; summer is still a lovely green, and fall? Oh wow. Peaches, apricot, gold and sometimes some plum, all with a slight iridescence to the leaves; check out the thread for this cultivar to see my pictures. This one I give afternoon shade, and since I got it summer of 2012, it has not flinched at our summer weather, and has come through winter very well. Good grower too. I have only ever seen this one listed on Iseli's website, though I hit the jackpot finding one at a local nursery. If you are interested in this one, pm me - I have another good source for it.

    - Nuresagi - My favorite upright red/purple. Great form, love the leaf shape, very elegant and refined. For me, even in part shade through the summer, it doesn't bronze out terribly, and fall is bright red.

    - Matthew - I only got this one last spring, and I'm already wondering why I didn't get it sooner. Hardy, tough tree, takes full sun like a champ, and heat doesn't even make it blink. Plus, it's one of the few cultivars that 'double pushes' from each leaf node, producing two instead of one leaf, thus making it fuller.

    Good luck with your list! :)
     
  5. FOCO

    FOCO New Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks everyone for being so kind and taking the time to respond to my question! I wasn’t really expecting anyone to respond, so I’m so excited to get so much great feedback!
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    maplesmagie,

    Thanks for the feedback on the plants you have experience with.

    In regards to some of your comments:

    1) Yea, I know Tsukushi gata and Umegae are really similar, and in the end, would probably only go with one of the two at this point…. I think I’m starting to lean towards Tsukushi gata, but I don’t think either choice would be a bad one.

    2) I know a good handful of the maples on my list are dwarf red (witches brooms)… I just can’t seem to decide on which one would be the best (Burant’s/Brandt’s dwarf, Elizabeth, Royale)….. I’m really looking for nice small leaf size with great form – more upright, like a mini tree. All three of these seem to be really great options. I’d love it if someone could provide some insight into the differences between these trees. Thanks for mentioning Verna Jean & Capercis Dwarf. I haven’t ever looked into either of these before, so I’ll have to do some research on them. Seems like both may be a bit harder to find. How did you end up coming across either of these trees and choosing them?

    3) I think I’m with you on the Shin deshojo vs. Chishio Improved. I’ve heard it has great form… so I’m probably going to end up going with it as one of my choices this year. I had a Beni Maiko, which also has some really awesome red spring color, but for some reason that tree went downhill for me. I think going to replace with Shin deshojo.

    4) Thanks for your thoughts on Ruby Stars and Ariadne… I was definitely on the border line with both of these trees. I’ve seen some fantastic photos, and some that don’t look so great. Funny you mention that if you were going to pick out your own variegated/reticulated leaf that you would have picked out Ukigumo or maybe Amagi shigure, because I coincidently have both.

    5) In regards to the Shirasawanum… Yea I almost included Autumn Moon on my list too…… I just really can’t decide which I would enjoy most. For some reason am really attracted to Mr. Sun for its different leaf shape. I hear Jordan can handle heat and sun quite well, which is always good for my climate.

    So here are the favorite JM’s that I currently own:

    Emperor One – I know this is a really common one, but I still like it none the less. It was actually the first Japanese maple I ever bought. I wanted something tough, and this guy has proven to be that. The color holds a good red for me all summer, and I love the leaf shape. This one will probably get to big for my containers at some point, and I may try and put it in the yard in the next few years, and see what happens.

    Shishigashira – this one is just so cool. Love how the leaves are somewhat curly/crumpled and bunch up very tightly on the branches. This tree has been a bit of a slow grower for me, and if you are looking for one I might recommend buying a larger size to start out with.

    Kamagata – This tree has been tough as nails for me. Has great spring color, and I’ve even got some great fall colors out of it, which I’m not sure if it known for. I love the form and leaf size. It is a really great small tree – almost bonsai like. And it isn’t too bushy; it has a good tree shape to it…… It has a bit of twiggyness to it, but not much.

    S. Aureum – this one seems be a bit finicky with sunlight when the leaves first emerge in spring, but after that it does great for me. I’ve seen some people mention that this tree can be a bit difficult, but I haven’t had any trouble with it. I really love the tree form, leave shape, and color.

    Amagi shgure – this is a new one for me last year, and I bought it really small. I can’t say much about its form, but the leaf colors are amazing. Both the color and reticulation held up well in our heat and sun, so I’d say this one is a winner. I can’t wait for it to get a bit bigger.

    Ukigumo – All I can say is that I love this tree. The variegation is really nice and didn’t burn for me, and even had some pink highlights…. It may be my favorite out of the ones I have.

    Red Dragon – Not too much to say about this one. As I’ve see it advertised - It’s a nice disectum, and the color held well for me. I like it a lot.

    Mikawa yatsubusa – I don’t even know to really describe this tree, but it is really cool. It’s like the flat leafed version of Shishigashira….. It’s definably one of my favorites, and in my opinion a must have.

    Orange dream – Great orange spring color, as you can probably imagine. I like how the leafs have more of a yellow green tone to them in the summer. It contrasts nicely with my green and red maples. I did have a bit of leaf burn on mine this past year, so I might need to work on giving it a bit more shade.

    Acer Campestre – Carnival – This tree is really cool, but in my experience it needs almost full deep shade. All the white on mine eventually burned, but the leaf shape and color contrast is awesome. I’m going to try and find a good spot to put him this upcoming summer that will hopefully stop it from burning.
    ______________________________________________

    ROEBUK,

    I really appreciate your thoughts… I know it’s so hard to ask the question – which is your favorite, because I’ll never get a perfect answer. The biggest problem for me is that no nurseries around here sell Japanese maples; they may carry 1 or 2 of the most common varieties in the summer, but nothing special beyond that. I so wish I could go to a nursery with hundreds of varieties and see my options in all seasons. I agree that looking at the trees in the dormant season is a great way to really see the tree. I have all my trees in containers in my garage currently, and find myself going out there in the winter months just to look at them and enjoy their form. I’ll defiantly keep your suggestions in mind as I delve further into my maple addiction. :) 

    _____________________________________________

    Andrea,

    Your growing conditions are probably really similar to mine in a lot of ways. Thanks for the recommendations on the online sources… I’ve actually purchased from a few of these before – but others I haven’t even looked at, so I’ll have to check them out. Don’t know if you’ve purchased from Davidsan’s in Springfield, IL, or not, but I’ve purchased a few trees from him in the past, and they were pretty nice. Also, have you used Eastfork Nursery before? I was thinking of trying them out this year…. I’ve read some pretty good reviews about their trees.

    Thanks for your thoughts on all your trees!

    1) Good to hear your Villa Taranto handled heat and sun well. I may have to get that one this year…. I’ve just been up in the air between that one and Koto no ito.

    2) Yes, the sunset I’m referring to is the disectum… Glad to hear you like it!

    3) In regards to the Shirawanums. I’ve also been looking at Sensu too….. l really like the leaf shape. There are too many nice ones to choose from! :)

    Also, that’s for your additional recommendations. I always like to hear about people’s favorite trees that do well for them. The Shinju sounds really interesting. Matthew also sounds interesting. Matthew is one I’ve come across in the past, but never really gave it much though. Interesting that it ‘double pushes’. I haven’t even heard of that before… I might have to add that one to my list for future purchases.

    Again, thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts and opinions so far. I really appreciate it.
     
  6. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Yep, I've bought from Davidsan's and from Eastfork as well. Sam (Eastfork) is going into semi-retirement mode, so while she'll still have trees, there won't be as much as in the past. She gets her trees directly from Buchholz, so they are excellent quality. Davidsan's is hit or miss with me; I won't go into details but my first purchase from him wasn't exactly the greatest and while he does have some nice trees, they are definitely more $$ than a similar tree elsewhere.

    I've attached a couple pictures of my Matthew for you. The first one, you can see the second set of leaves emerging from the same location as the first. Fjellheim is another cultivar that does this. I'm trying Fjellheim for a second time (got it in summer, it went in the ground in fall), as my first time around, it didn't make it through the following spring due to increasing die-back. Hoping to have better results this time. The third picture is of it.
     

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  7. maplesmagpie

    maplesmagpie Active Member

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    Thanks for your response and suggestions!

    I bought my Capercis Dwarft on ebay from chuck1947chuck. It's one of my best online purchases (along with the Tsukushigata from Conifer Kingdom)... it arrived so well-developed and well-branched, it looks like it's been growing in place for years. The thing I like about Capercis Dwarf, and the reason I chose it, is for its form. It has a very open, tree-like form. It grows almost naturally into a bonsai shape, rather than being so compact. Love that little tree.

    Another one I bought from Conifer Kingdom, and I'm really looking forward to how it develops, is Baldsmith. Have you considered it? There's a garden blogger I follow, and she posted this photo of hers. From then on I knew I had to have it: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/113082640618251265/ I'm training mine to be similarly upright.

    Verna Jean is one I'm curious about because Davidsan's has mentioned it multiple times as being one of the toughest, most hardy red dwarfs. In my 5b/6a location, hardiness is key. After my disappointment with Ruby Stars, I'm also looking for red dwarfs that hold the red for a longer period of time. I've seen photos of it that show it growing into a more vertical shape, however, so I'm waiting to see if it gets more popular (and more widely available) before purchasing.

    Shin deshojo, I think, is getting a prominent planting in my yard this next spring. I found this photo in this forum, and it's exactly the sort of form I'd love to see: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/113082640618986652/ Gorgeous!

    I'm glad to hear Kamagata has done well for you. I had to choose between Kamagata and Kashima, and I ended up going for Kashima. I can't remember why. :)

    The other tree I'm looking at for the upcoming year is Ao meshime no uchi.... that color of leaf and that leaf shape are so appealing. I might hold off, though, and see if my Kihachijo is enough to satisfy me in that department. They're so similar. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/113082640619179937/

    Otherwise it sounds like we have very similar trees in our yard.... I do wish I'd found a spot for Ukigumo, though. Maybe someday! Honestly, I'm so out of room that sometimes I day dream about planting mystery maples in local medians and parkways, just so I could "have" the tree and see it regularly as I drive by.
     
  8. maplesmagpie

    maplesmagpie Active Member

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    Forgot to mention...

    When you order from Conifer Kingdom, as someone mentioned above I think, you end up with extra room in the box. I filled my last order with Kuro Hime and Shidava Gold, plus they included a freebie Bihou. The Bihou I gave away-- I had bad luck with Coral Bark-like trees in our climate-- but I'm excited to see what Kuro Hime, and especially Shidava Gold, might do. Based on what you're looking at, you might want to check out Shidava Gold:

    http://www.coniferkingdom.com/Shidava_Gold_Japanese_Maple_p/acer_palmatum_shidava_gold.htm

    And one more... have you looked at Iijima Sunago? It's another tree I purchased after reading through these forums to discover people's favorite JM. It's very unique. I have it planted near a gate because I like its form and winter colors so much. It's nothing like the truly colorful winter JMs, but the bark and buds are just a little more colorful than the rest of my JMs and I find myself noticing it every time I walk by. The colors during the year were very pretty, too, with the green veins. In general I've been trying to opt for trees that have less of the darker coloring, but with Tsukushigata and Iijima Sunago I couldn't resist.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  9. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    FOCO...The only way i could decide on my favourite JM is if i were to move to a smaller house with an equally smaller garden attached, which in turn would just nicely accomodate only one JM, then for me it would have to be Pendulum Julian no contest what with it's amazing growth rate three colour changes during the year and beautiful branch structure it attains over the years and it's ability to with stand all weather conditions this would be my choice with Omure yama coming a very close second.

    Have noticed quite a few people mentioning 'Tsukushi gata' and 'Umegae', have you considered 'Koriba' very similar to both of the later with strong dark plum coloured leaves with yellow veining then turning a vibrant orange /yellow in the fall,again seems to handle weather conditions with ease, certainly the most darkest plum leaved JM i have at present ,do not have nothing else that comes any where close to this one, pic from last june and it did become darker very nice tree.
     

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  10. Samara

    Samara Active Member Maple Society

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    I highly recommend the following:
    1) Shin deshojo
    24) Koto no ito
    26) Chantilly Lace

    Shin deshojo is spectacular in the spring, and though it's less show in the summer and autumn, it always looks great in my garden.

    Koto no ito is beautiful year-round. The way it leafs out in the spring is almost like fireworks.

    I bought a small Chantilly Lace last June and it was beautiful all summer and even more impressive in the fall. I can't wait to see its spring color.

    Aratama is very attractive, but, in my experience, very slow-growing.

    I bought an A. p. Tsukushi gata last fall. The autumn color was stunning. I look forward to seeing its spring foliage. The leaf shape is beautiful, as some else pointed out.

    Hope this helps. My other personal favorites are Mikawa yatsubusa, Corallinum, and Kamagata, my very first Japanese maple.

    Samara
     

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