Pines in the PNW

Discussion in 'Outdoor Gardening in the Pacific Northwest' started by Tree Nut, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    Hello all! I've just joined the forum, although I have referred to it for several years. I have a question for the pine experts in the PNW.

    Will the following pines grow in the PNW?:

    armandi
    cembra
    cembroides edulis
    cembroides monophylla
    jeffreyi
    koraiensis
    peuce
    pumila
    pinea

    I'm also interested to know if maclura pomiforma (osage orange) will grow as well.

    Many thanks,

    Tree Nut
     
  2. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    They should all grow, though for some (Pp. edulis, monophylla), you'll need very well-drained soil. All also need full sun.
     
  3. ryansenechal

    ryansenechal Active Member

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  4. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I do have very sandy, well drained soil.
     
  5. woodschmoe

    woodschmoe Active Member 10 Years

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    I'm growing koraensis, edulis, and pinea and all are doing well (though edulis is slow...). Worth noting that I always mulch the seedlings with pine duff from existing stands (ectomycorhizal benefit). Don't know about its' efficacy across species, but as per the following link, it is quite beneficial to seedling growth and survival (study only discusses two species):

    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/saf/fs/1982/00000028/00000003/art00029
     
  6. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    Thanks Woodshmoe,

    I've read that inoculating pines (and other plants) is very beneficial. I was wondering about using native pine duff for inoculation. However, the native pines on my property don't seem to live very long as they appear to suffer from some disease (the needles turn red and the tree dies). I haven't looked deeply into that yet, and I wasn't planning on planting in the areas where my native pines are.

    I live on ten acres of half sandy river bottom and half gravelly (slightly) higher ground and all the native pines are on the higher ground. I am currently stratifying pine seeds right now for planting in the late spring (depending on species). I have a few thousand of each.
     
  7. woodschmoe

    woodschmoe Active Member 10 Years

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    Red needles followed by tree death is reminescent of mountain pine beetle damage, which wouldn't bode well for your planting project (i'm not knowledgeable about the beetles outside of a general sense, so don't know about their species preference) but best of luck to you as the species list and scope is impressive. I mulch with duff from native pine stands, and notice a distinct benefit re: seedling growth, so it seems that native duff is beneficial across species.
     
  8. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    I'm just outside of Squamish and believe my native pines are western white pine (monticola). Some of the larger trees are still alive, but I have seen both large and smaller/younger trees turn red and die. In fact I'm going to take a walk and see exactly what's up.

    You have raised a good point though. Do pine beetles attack any pines, or are they species specific?
     
  9. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    I just checked out the native pines on my property and noticed that some of the ones nearest my road (which I recently cut into the forest 4 years ago) are the ones that are dead. There are ~7 dead pines. They were all smaller trees about 5-7 inches in diameter perhaps 50 feet tall. Some are a few meters in from the road. There are 15 - 20 larger ones as well up to 18 inches in diameter and 100 feet tall that show no signs of damage/disease.

    I first noticed the dying trees when I cleared the way for my road. I thought at the time the ones that died were related to my road construction and then noticed a couple more further in that were already dead.

    The fact that there are quite a few very large and healthy ones leads me to believe that they were not killed by beetles, as I would expect all top be dead by now (a few years after I noticed the first dead trees).

    I'll investigate this further.
     
  10. vitog

    vitog Contributor 10 Years

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    Pine Beetle damage is usually pretty obvious if trees are being killed. Look for many small boreholes filled with resin in the bark of the trees. Check Wikipedia under "mountain pine beetle" to read about the species affected.
     
  11. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    Nope, after looking at the damage caused by pine beetles it is definately not pine beetles affecting my trees. Perhaps there were a few weak ones that died of other reasons?? The dead ones were all near cleared areas if that makes a difference. As I mentioned earlier the largest ones seem to be ok, and they're all further in the forest surrounded/growing near large Douglas firs.

    I guess I won't worry about it too much. I may experiment and take forest floor duff from under the healthy pines and inoculate a few seedling trays to see if it makes a difference.
     
  12. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    Anyways, I am glad to know that others are growing the same pine trees in the coastal BC climate. Going by the hardiness zones I knew the cold here wouldn't hurt them, but was concerned about the heavy fall/winter rains, as some of the species don't experience that type of climate in their normal growing regions. Summers where I live (north of Squamish) are very hot (compared to say Vancouver/Victoria) and relatively dry which most pines like.
     
  13. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I'd guess your dead pines most likely died from root damage due to the road construction - heavy machinery and roadstone don't do roots any good at all. The other possibility with Western White Pine is blister rust, look out for heavy resin bleeding on the trunks.
     
  14. Tree Nut

    Tree Nut Active Member

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    Thanks Michael

    After researching white pine blister rust, that is exactly what has infected my trees. The larger ones that did die were covered in resin and the tops died first. The ones surrounded by firs are fine. Small ones die.

    Since ribes are the alternate host for the disease, there is not much I can do, as the area around me is full of wild gooseberries and currants. Since it affects white pines with 5 needles per bundle I am concerned about the korean, armandii, peuce, cembra, and cembroides pines. The Jeffreyi and pinea should not be affected as they are not 5 needle pines. I read that the european and asian pines have developed resistance. This leaves the cembroides (pinyon) pines. Does anyone know if they have resistance? It seems like the worst affected are the western and eastern white pines.
     
  15. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Yep, European and Asian white pines are resistant. Pinyon pines are in a different section of the genus, and aren't affected (there are other species of rust that can attack them, but these are rare and not very serious).
     
  16. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    All or nearly all on your list have been grown in this area for some time.
     

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