Colletia paradoxa? Serious spines way larger than the leaves

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by wcutler, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    We saw this bush on the walk at the end of the Rose Garden. I see photos of Colletia paradoxa with spines like this but with many of them widened at the base, which would fit with common names of Jet Plane Plant, or Anchor Plant. Another common name is Crucifixion Thorn, which better suits this one, that doesn't seem to have any triangular-shaped thorns. On one website, there's mention of Colletia having tiny leaves between the thorns, which this plant has. One site mentioned that though it's supposed to be a tropical plant, it can survive below freezing temperatures.

    So is that what this is?
     
  2. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Colletia spinosa.
     
  4. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Thanks, Silver surfer and Michael. C. hystrix and C. spinosa seem to have rounder thorns in the photos I can find. These seemed noticeably flattened and somewhat broader at the base. Do either of those do that, or is that not a significant difference?
     
  5. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Here is this Colletia again. Have I missed the flowers? Are those flat white things bracts or something and the flower has finished? But the second photo shows flowers coming? And the last one shows some fruits.

    Is it any more clear which one this is?
     
  6. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    It turns out that Nadia has been calling this Colletia armata. I see a City of Vancouver Archives posting with a wonderful photo with flowers from VanDusen, taken by Gerald Straley in October, 1979. So it's not likely that I've missed the flowers.

    The name is given as "Colletia cruciata/Colletia armata", and I think it looks a lot like the spines on the Stanley Park plant - more flattened than on C. hystrix and C. spinosa, but not wide as C. paradoxa.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  7. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    I am not sure of very latest facts/findings, but in RHS Plantfinder 2010-2011 it has...
    Colletia armata ....as the old name. Now Colletia hystrix.
    Colletia cruciata ...as the old name. Now Colletia paradoxa.

    Colletia hystrix flowers here in September.
     
  8. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I'd wondered when I came across the C. armata 'Rosea' whether it was the same as hystrix.

    Maybe Straley and the VanDusen people also thought this one looked intermediate between the two and decided not to decide. Since VanDusen is part of the Parks Board, the Stanley Park plant could have been from the same source.
     
  9. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I can't believe I didn't post the flowers. Here they are on the Stanley Park shrub, fully open on September 2. I see on Hortpedia that Colletia spinosa is given as a synonym of Colletia hystrix and Colletia armata.
    20120902_StanleyParkRoseGarden_Colletia_Cutler_P1310550.jpg 20120902_StanleyParkRoseGarden_Colletia_Cutler_P1310553.JPG

    There's one at UBCBG named Colletia hystrix that had one flower open (or maybe two) on September 21. They don't look quite the same as the Stanley Park ones, seemingly bloom a lot later, and the spines are not as flat as in Stanley Park.
    20120921_UBCBG_ColletiaHystrix_Cutler_P1320782.jpg

    UBCBG also has one other individual that's supposed to be Colletia hystrix cv. Rosea, a tiny plant with no evidence of flowers, but it's actually older (1977) than the one just above (1980).
    20120907_UBCBG_ColletiaHystrixRosea_Cutler_P1310680.JPG
     
  10. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I'm finding this difficult. GRIN records for Colletia show:
    No mention of hystrix or armata. Spinosissima is given as a synonym for spinosa. The only photos I can find that look like the Stanley Park plants are called C. spinosissima. Here's one from wikimedia commons. And one from hortpedia. But there are lots by that name that have the round thorns. Maybe how round the thorns are is not significant for C. hystrix, as long as they don't look like airplane wings.

    Fruits are just starting.
    20120925_StanleyParkRoseGarden_Colletia_Cutler_P1320995.jpg

    [Edited]Here's another individual I just found in Stanley Park, at the gatehouse to the golf course, about twice my height (as tall as the gatehouse building). The photo is a bit dark, but it clearly shows the flatness of the thorns that looks so different to me from C. hystrix.
    20120925_GolfCourseGatehouse_Colletia_Cutler_P1330192.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  11. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    GRIN is often incomplete, so taxa not mentioned at all may well still be widely accepted.
     
  12. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I have some more names, though no new species.

    Colletia exserta = Colletia paradoxa.
    Here are some photos of that.

    Colletia atrox = Colletia spinosissima (which see below, = C. spinosa = C. hystrix).
    Looks just like my Stanley Park ones! See photos. The Wikimedia photo for this name is from the same source. I can't get into the Kew database right now, which has some entries under Colletia atrox Miers.

    I think these fruits are as developed as they get, though I'm not certain of that.
     

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  13. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    That was October 5; now it's October 22 and the fruits are pretty much the same size. With the naked eye, they still look like tiny specks inside those cups.
     

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  14. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    There are two of what I decided to call Colletia spinossissima on Rose Garden Lane. Here is a photo of the taller one, which is more than twice my height, and photos of the main branches of the droopier one. It doesn't seem to be flower or fruit time - flowers aren't due until October.
    Colletia spinosissima_StanleyParkRoseGardenLane_Cutler_20200728_144320.jpg Colletia spinosissima_StanleyParkRoseGardenLane_Cutler_20200728_144301.jpg Colletia spinosissima_StanleyParkRoseGardenLane_Cutler_20200728_144502.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  15. wcutler

    wcutler Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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