Newbie dilemma on small space gardening

Discussion in 'Small Space Gardening' started by GreenGarden, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. GreenGarden

    GreenGarden Member

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    Hi

    I am very new to the concept of gardening.. In fact I have started reading some books on container gardening just to get an idea of gardening in a small space. I would like to have a garden in the small patio of my apartment. The patio faces the north, but it is open and gets good sunlight from the east west directions..We live in Fremont,CA,..So i am assuming we r in Zone 9. Would love to know what r some good flowering plants for me to start with..And also what all I would need to start off.. Any recommendations on local nurseries too will be appreciated.

    Thanks and regards.
     
  2. violetbaby123

    violetbaby123 Member

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    Don't be scared!!! Just get some good size pots (10-12 inches at least) and good potting soil, and don't forget to feed your plants. Some easy ones are Marigolds, zinnias, and periwinkle to start with. If you sun isn't too strong, when it warms up, Impatiens would be great too. There are many different colors. I am in zone 9 here and our growing season is about to start. By the way, if you have a window at this northern exposure, it is an excellent place for an African Violet inside. Just have fun!!!
     
  3. GreenGarden

    GreenGarden Member

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    Thanks for the encouragement.
    Shall surely try it out.
     
  4. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hi GreenGarden,

    You can check your hardiness zone here with this zip code zone finder.
    http://www.gardenweb.com/zones/zip.cgi

    Most potting soil comes with fertilizer added these days so be careful with what you purchase. There are some organic potting soils out there but you will have to search. If you do get one that has fertilizer already in it I would caution you about adding more fertilizer when you water for about 3 months as that is how long the slow release fertilizers last.

    When selecting plants keep in mind that:
    Full sun is 6 hours or more
    part sun is 4 to 6 hours
    part shade is 2 to 4 hours
    shade is 2 hours or less of sun.

    With my outdoor plants that are exposed to rain, I find it's not really a good idea to put your pots directly on the patio or have saucers. The saucers can hold water if there is rain and keep the soil too moist. Leaving the pots directly on the patio causes stains. I use pot feet to elevate the pots. There are pot feet from the simple to the whimsical.
    http://www.earthlygoods.com/garden_whimsy/pot_feet.html

    I don't recommend putting anything in the bottom of the pot for drainage.
    http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda ...ural Myths_files/Myths/Container drainage.pdf

    Newt
     
  5. GreenGarden

    GreenGarden Member

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    Hi Newt.

    Thanks for the reply. It has really helped me gain a little more confidence in improving my gardening

    U talked abt different potting soils with added fertilizer and some without.. what would u recommend,potting soil without or with fertilizer..

    THanks for the help.
     
  6. hortfreak

    hortfreak Active Member Maple Society

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    To keep things neat and tidy, I put a tissue (or tissues), aka Kleenex, over the holes in pots before adding the potting soil. The tissue breaks down quickly, but it does keep the potting soil in the pot until the mix starts to hold together from watering. I used to use pieces of broken pots but found that too often they ended up blocking the drainage holes and some potting soil always managed to escape.

    On the question of fertilizer in or not in the potting soil, I have found it helpful to use a slow release fertilizer in containers in the spring when I am potting up. I then do not have to worry about forgetting to or having time to fertilize the pots when there is so much else to do. Later in the summer there isn't so much to do so it isn't so much an issue. I guess it really is a question of how much time you have, how hands on you want to be, and how good you are at remembering to do things.

    Relax and enjoy. Good luck.
     
  7. GreenGarden

    GreenGarden Member

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    Thanks for the reply.
     
  8. oscar

    oscar Active Member

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    If you have room for some larger plants, Fatsia japonica, Camellias and Buxus are all very easy to please :)

    As per usual there is no background info on the research or experiments carried out (a link would be useful to show the mechanics of water movement through various materials) anyone know of a good site which shows experimental data or gives the scientific reasons behind gravitational flow and or capillary action of water?
     
  9. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Green Garden,

    I think Hortfreak said it well. Just remember if you do purchase potting soil with added fertilizer you won't need to add the slow release fertilizer because it will alredy be there.

    Personally I prefer organic potting soil as it has compost. When you fertilize with a synthetic fertilizer you are feeding the plant. Synthetics leave behind residual salts and are like steriods. They produce lots of juicy growth that can attract pests. With organic soil and organic fertilizer you feed the soil and the soil feeds the plants. You might find this interesting.
    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=22808

    Newt
     
  10. hortfreak

    hortfreak Active Member Maple Society

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    I, too, prefer the organic way, but due to time restraints in the spring, I treat the few pots of annuals I do have this way. (Perennials get treated differently - compost plus organic fertilizer when I get around to it.) Later in the summer, when additional fertilizer is needed, I switch to kelp and fish emulsions used alternately.

    Thanks, Newt, for the notation about not adding more fertilizer initially. I find I don't need to fertilize for about three months after potting, but California, being substantially warmer, may require it sooner.
     
  11. GreenGarden

    GreenGarden Member

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    Thanks Newt and HortFreak
    Your replies have helped me in getting a lot more wise on the issue.
    Regards
    GreenGarden
     
  12. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Green Garden, you are so welcome. I'm glad we could help.

    Hortfreak, I too will use a slow release fertilizer with potted annuals, especially those in the sun as they need water more often. What causes the need for additional fertilizer sooner is the fact that the warmer temps mean watering more often. Watering more often means that you are flushing out the fertilizer sooner. I hope that makes sense!

    Newt
     
  13. hortfreak

    hortfreak Active Member Maple Society

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    Newt, how long do you find you can go before having to start a fertilizer regime? You are somewhat warmer than I am, but I am curious to note the difference. I do realize that a cooler summer generally means a longer period of time, but in general, how long would you say? Thanks for the info.
     
  14. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hortfreak, we planted tomatoes in containers last year and I used organic potting soil and Osmocote. I found we needed to start fertilizing after about 2 1/2 months. We used fish emulsion, milk and cooled veggie cooking water that had nothing added to it. With my annuals in pots I usually can go 3 to 4 months before I need to fertilize.

    Newt
     
  15. hortfreak

    hortfreak Active Member Maple Society

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    Thanks, Newt. Interesting that you can go 3-4 months with annuals. I notice a decline after about 2 1/2 months but generally wait for 3 months to start fertilizing. Veggies I never use anything other than organic fertilizer. I would not dare use milk because of a huge population of rodents. Veggie water is something that I always think about but rarely do use. And shame on me for that.
     
  16. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hortfreak, sorry to hear about the rodent problems. I would think the veggie cooking water might attract them as well. I forgot to mention that I also used cooled water from soft or hard boiled eggs. My family loves my deviled eggs!

    Maybe my annuals are lasting so long because I use organic potting soil and mix in compost.

    Newt
     
  17. hortfreak

    hortfreak Active Member Maple Society

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    Newt, I think you may have just hit the proverbial nail on the head---"potting soil and mix in compost". That is one thing I do not use compost for. I wish I had enough to spare for my containers. It, of course, would be a much better garden practice. I do use organic potting mix.

    Being new to country living I am not yet into the regular habit of being more resourceful. Old habits die hard, and city folk are woefully wasteful. Water has been in short supply the last 2 summers. I will make an effort to save my egg water, too. As to the veggie cooking water, in theory it shouldn't be a problem. I do not add butter or anything like that in the pot, just the veggies. However, having said that, I have rodent problems with my composters anyway. It seems they are lovely places to live in for the winter. I am extremely careful about what I put into them, but when you live in a heavily farmed area, I guess one is going to have problems.

    GreenGarden, Newt is right---add some compost in your pots if you have some available to you. It can only help.
     
  18. GreenGarden

    GreenGarden Member

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    Thanks Newt and Hortfreak.
    Shall surely give it a try..
    Also got some more info from your chats.
    Thanks again.

    GreenGarden
     
  19. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hortfreak, with water in short supply do you use rain barrels? I'm also wondering if you mix your kitchen wastes into the compost when you add it. Do you have any cats that live outdoors? You don't say which rodents you have a problem with, but if you have a barn or similar structure, have you considered establishing a feral cat colony to keep the rodents under control? Cats generally won't won't be able to control rats, but they will help with mice.

    Btw, you can also purchase a bag or two of compost from a garden center or big box store and use that in your pots for your flowers. You could also topdress the pots with a thin layer of used coffee grounds.

    Green Garden, glad this is helpful for you.

    Newt
     
  20. hortfreak

    hortfreak Active Member Maple Society

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    Newt---so you think I can go to the store and purchase a bag of compost. Ha, ha. Seriously, locally all that is available in a bag is cow, sheep or horse manure, which generally is just about useless. I had a source of cow manure from a farm up the road. However, they decided to sell their dairy quota, sold the cows and bought a few sheep. Sheep manure would be good, but they now need every bit they get as they also grow cash crops. Coffee and tea grounds are great, but they go into my compost.
    Maybe this year I will save some of them for my pots. That is so easy to do, too. Meantime, I am trying to find a new source of manure, which is difficult because most farmers here also grow cash crops and use the manure on their fields. Maybe I should buy a few goats or sheep.

    Yes, I tumble my compost when additions are made. Rain barrels are not of much use unless there is rain. This past year, where I live, there was literally not one drop of rain until September. That is ALL year. Minimal snow during the winter months. I think we had a total of 6". I do have barrels though. Collecting water here is an issue because of West Nile, although my next purchase is likely going to be a rain storage system of some sort---probably a cistern. The last few years have seen massive amounts of rain in September and October. The sump pump should also provide a rather nice amount.

    A bit off topic, but I have all the rodents---rats being the inhabitants of the composters. It is difficult with so much grain storage around me not to have them. The local humane society recently rounded up all the feral cats (several hundred), because they were sickly---ear mites, etc. There are still rather a lot around. You wouldn't think the rodents would be a problem with all the predatory wildlife around---snakes (by the hundreds), coyotes, etc. I think the rodents are more of a problem this year because of the unusually cold weather.

    I have never heard of coffee or tea grounds being rodent attractive, nor have I seen any evidence of it myself. Do you know if they might be a problem? I don't want to have to share my patio with rodents---snakes are bad enough.

    GreenGarden, I am glad you are finding this helpful. Chime in if you have any questions or don't understand the point of something.
     
  21. GreenGarden

    GreenGarden Member

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    Hi guys

    Another dilemma..
    I know this sound stupid..But had to ask since I dont want to start my gardening on the wrong foot..

    If I use good size pots (10-12 inches at least) and I get small pot plants from the nursery..how much of the potting soil should fill my pot and can i take a couple of the same pot plants and place it side by side..

    Also what fertilizer should I use..And what do I do just spray it or sprinkle it on top of the potting soil or do I have to dig it in..

    Hope it makes sense..

    Regards

    GreenGarden
     
  22. GreenGarden

    GreenGarden Member

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    Oh oh one more question..

    Do I need to add mulch on top of the potting soil..

    Also there was some rain here during the night..Was wondering how do I protect the plants ..do i cover it up or is it ok to be in the rain.. Since sometimes it is at night when u r sound asleep that it rains and u cant do much of a protection will it destroy my plants?
     
  23. violetbaby123

    violetbaby123 Member

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    Great!!!Looks like you're getting started! It will depend on the type of plants and size you purchased, and whether they are compatable to tell if you can plant them in the same pot. This could turn out to be a discussion.

    Fertlizer will also depend on if they are blooming plants or foliage.

    I don't know if we are supposed to post our e-mails on this site, but I would be happy to im you or e-mail. I would be proud to help you get started with your small space garden. I am still not to good at using the quote thing on this site.

    What plants did you select to get started with? What size pots? I potted up some plants today. My fingernails are still dirty. I just had to stop in and check. Sorry, Rambeling.... I will check back in a few minutes, and if you know if we can post our e-mail, answer back, and I will post mine. I will post you couple of sites where you can see repotting methods. You will soon develop your own, there's no "magic" way, but there are some things that will give you a good start. Will post again after while.
     
  24. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hortfreak, I hope I address all your questions here. If not, lmk.

    Why is it useless?

    I think goats would be easier to care for, especially if you get just females. They will eat just about anything, including weeds like kudzu (not a problem for you though) and their manure is great. Chicken manure is also very good but must be composted as it's 'hot'. From this site which has some helpful info but isn't all that detailed:
    http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm

    Most of the sites that compare different barnyard manures don't include goats. Here's some info on goat manure.

    Here's an interesting study and some excerpts.
    http://www.jgpress.com/compostscience/archives/_free/001074.html

    Some interesting questions and answers here. Here's part of one question and answer on goat manure.
    http://www.whitneyfarms.com/guide/faqs/faq_soil.shtml#manure1
    More good info on manures and some charts. Sadly goat manure isn't included.
    http://www.gardening.cornell.edu/factsheets/ecogardening/guidenutval.html
    http://gardening.wsu.edu/stewardship/compost/manure/manure3.htm

    You can use mosquito dunks for that. I do with no problems.

    In reference to your rodent situation. From this site:

    Newt
     
  25. Newt

    Newt Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Violetbaby,

    It's not a good idea to post your e-mail addy on a public forum. It can lead to spam. It would be best to send a private message through the board.

    To post a quote just click on the icon at the top of the reply box that looks like a cream or yellow square with words inside it. You'll get the words QUOTE with brackets. Copy what part you want to quote and paste it between the words.

    Newt
     

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