Meyer Lemon dropping leaves & fruit; wood dying; potted

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by eleven, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. eleven

    eleven Member

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    What could be the problem?

    Synopsis:
    Potted, indoor, Improved Meyer Lemon with mostly healthy-looking, perky leaves. Regularly dropping green leaves, some twigs are turning brown. Dropped its only several-months-old lemon. Two new, unopened blossoms. 46’’ tall w/pot.

    Dropping 3-8 leaves a day. Most fall off leaving the petiole attached to the branch, but about a quarter of the leaves fall off with the petiole attached to the leaf. The dropped leaves usually appear as healthy and green as the attached leaves.

    Very occasionally a leaf will wither and dry up before falling off.

    One or two leaves have turned yellow before dropping, but it is only slightly more common than the leaves withering before dropping.

    The original lemon just fell off today, still green and maybe less than two inches long.

    Just recently some of the bare twigs are dying. I prune off the branches that turn brown; if not it would look pitiful.

    It appeared to be making efforts at new growth, with very tiny green bumps on the tips of a few branches. However, a week later those bumps seem less obvious and maybe have stopped growing and dried.


    Conditions:
    Location: Utah, low humidity, sun, 80s-high 90s daily in the summer. For a couple months I regularly took it outdoors. Indoors, 8’’ at its closest point from a F15T8 grow light, off at night. Rotated daily. 6-7 ft. from a large west window, although a dresser partially shades it from that sun.

    Potted in well-draining soil (top of the soil is loose and dry when it needs water) in a 10-11’’ diameter, 12’’ tall pot from the nursery.

    Temp. is approx. 75°. Its room is slightly warmer and more humid than the rest of the house because I often leave the window open. No direct breeze from vents, but air conditioning.

    When the top two or so inches of soil are dry I take the pot outside to water (secondary water, no chlorine/fluoride) and fertilize it with Miracle Grow Azalea Camellia Rhododendron food fertilizer, identical to Miracid (30-10-10). I use half a teaspoon/ 2 liters of water every time I water, but I let the water drain out onto the cement until none leaks out. A month ago I flushed out the soil with plain water in case salt was building up.

    When I disturb the soil I can see miniscule, soft-bodied jumping insects scatter. I researched them and think they are springtails: http://www.springhalen.dk/folsomia.JPG There was a small centipede in the soil last week. I understand neither of these is harmful.

    There is no webbing, dust, stickiness, other apparent pests, nor strange residue on the plant. The only possible exception is when I touched the last lemon that fell off it felt very slightly tacky on part. The skin looked clean and normal.



    History:
    The tree appeared healthy when I got it early this June. It had one ¾’’ to 1’’-or so lemon and a few blossoms. I couldn’t find any pests on it. The leaves did appear to have been damaged at one point, having some small holes in the leaves and leaves that had curled-in strangely at the edges. Many of the leaves also had raised bumps (raised if viewed from above, indented from beneath). Before I bought it I asked the man who “knew about†the citrus if that was a problem and he said no, that it was probably just some hail damage or something from the original nursery.

    The tree has dropped leaves the entire time I’ve had it.

    I shocked the plant by putting it in direct sun with no transition period. I would heavily mist or lightly spray off the branches with the hose, then leave it in the sun for a few hours outdoors (hot and sunny with low humidity.) I realized my mistake and from then on when I moved it outdoors only let it sit in the shade or dappled sunlight.

    I left the tree with my grandmother for a month. She watered it as I instructed her, same fertilizing, draining in her sink for a few hours after. She kept it in a bright room with big western and northern windows. When I got home it was losing leaves and I discovered what looked like rust mites: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8xC9bwq6A...UxMVdd7c/s1600-h/bald+cypress+rust+mite+4.JPG on it. I’d thought at first they were mealy bugs (which killed a palm before I got the lemon), from the cottony stuff and the appearance of the big ones but they moved too quickly. I swabbed off any I could find with alcohol and rinsed the tree off, then I sprayed the tree with neem oil.

    The tree had bloomed and produced seven lemons, about ¾’’ long. They turned slightly yellow then all fell off but the much larger original lemon that came with the plant. I found mites tucked inside the stem where the lemons had been attached. As they were dropping I doused every little lemon with neem, especially where they were attached, but was too late.

    About a week later I repeated neem to be careful, but saw no mites. Several weeks later I found a single large mite. I scoured the tree for more but found none. I sprayed it with neem to be safe.

    I got in the habit of misting the tree with water about twice a day, sometimes much more.


    Here are photos of the tree and its environment: http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x165/anima1_kid/lemon tree/
    Let me know if you'd like more information or photos.

    I think I’ll add a pebble tray.
    Would such an immature lemon ripen off the tree?
    Thank you so much!
     

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009
  2. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Eleven, quite the post ! I looked at your photos - nothing here seems out of the ordinary. Your plant looks in good health. Growing potted citrus is a finicky endeavor. In my experience, growing lemons and citrus in general inside in a pot has its problems. I have 14 citrus plants in the ground and another 25 or so in pots which I bring in during the time that frost may occur. I keep them away from heat sources - air ducts, hot lamps, radiators etc. Before I bring in the plants in the fall, I treat the soil to kill all the bugs that may be present. Outside of active growing season I do not fertilize. In my experience, they do not like to be moved about adjusting to inside then outside back and forth. It is normal for my citrus lose leaves and even twig die back. with no long term ill effects. The only possible cause problem that I can see from your photos is the closeness of your lamp to the tree. Depending on the amount of heat put off by the bulb it may be causing the leaves to dry out??

    Greg
     
  3. eleven

    eleven Member

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    Thank you so much for replying!

    I'll move the tree back a little, although the light puts off very little heat.

    My plant is definitely not healthy. It's lost 17 leaves and both blossoms in the past two days.

    It's September and I'm not moving the tree outside anymore. Could it be getting too little light?

    A couple of the new dropped leaves were paler around the edges and browner than usual in the part that hadn't paled. The veins on the dropped leaves seem a little pale too.

    Attached are some recent dropped leaves and the tree as it looks tonight.
     

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  4. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I notice that the fallen leaves have dropped without the petiole still attached to the leaf blade. When a leaf falls, and the petiole remains attached to the branch, it is many time a symptom of a stress. I also notice that the growth medium looks to be 3 or 4 inches below the top of the container. Either, the the medium was originally never filled to within an inch of the top, or the medium has, over time degraded, and has compacted down to the present low level inside the container. Looking at the tree's foliage, it does not seem to have any nutrient deficiencies. One thing is for sure, and that is, *if the tree indeed has a problem, the problem is in the container. When you water your tree, exactly how quickly does the medium drain? How long has the tree been growing in the same medium? What is the medium composed of?- Millet (1,212-)
     
  5. eleven

    eleven Member

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    Thank you so much for taking your time to help me.

    I pour in two liters of water and in a minute or so it begins to drain. I leave it there for a few hours, but it stops draining before an hour I'm sure.

    The tree is in the same medium it was in at the original nursery (Durling Nursery, CA), I assume. I have had it since early June.

    The medium is composed of 40% granite, and the rest is bark, compost, "New Leaf Organics," and a couple fertilizers (one is triple 15) to make the compost "react with the bark." It's quite loose.

    I called Durling Nursery and Mr. Durling said to water it every couple days because their soil is loose ("we water ours every day") and to only fertilize it every few months, as I was seriously over-fertilizing it (see what I wrote above for how I was fertilizing).

    I am nervous to water it quite that frequently, but if it sounds like a good idea I will. I will also cut back fertilizing (I'd love to see new growth). I let much water run out the pot, which was why I fertilized it with each watering. How often would be best (water and fertilizer)?

    Several days ago I watered it, sprayed off the leaves, and let it sit in the dappled shade for several hours. That day it only lost one leaf, and the succeeding days only 2-3. This is opposed to up to 8 a day previously. Perhaps it is too dry.

    Attached are photos of the soil and tree today.

    -eleven
     

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  6. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    First, the amount of water applied to a citrus tree is not actually a problem. If the tree's medium has EXCELLENT drainage, you could water the tree 10 times a day without difficulty. It is not the amount of water that kills a tree, it is the absence of root zone air that kills a citrus tree. All growth mediums (potting soil) decompose over time, and as they decompose, the medium compacts. Al the medium compacts the air porosity is slowly reduced, until it reaches the point where the irrigation water fills the soil pours for longer and longer periods, eliminating the air. The tree actually dies from suffocation. I have 5 citrus tree growing in the ground, and 100+ different citrus varieties growing in containers. When I water my my container trees they completely drain, in one (1) minute or less. All of my container trees, are growing in 4 parts CHC and 1 part peat moss. As to fertilizer: The CCPP (Citrus Clonal Protection Program) http://ccpp.ucr.edu/ at the University of California fertilize all of their container citrus tree with every watering. The CCPP supplies cutting to all of the citrus growers in California, plus other states. I also fertilize all of my container trees with EVERY watering at 300 PPM Nitrogen. Citrus are very heavy feeders, therefore require a lot of nutrition. When a tree's growth medium does not have EXCELLENT drainage the results always have problems, followed by the tree's death. If your tree's medium is taking an hour to drain, that is MUCH MUCH MUCH to slow, and must be corrected (if your sure that it is taking an hour to drain - I doubt it could be that long as it looks loose). The medium that Durling is using is a good medium, but you don't know how long the tree has been in that container before you got it. Learn to determine when to water either by the weight of the container, or with your finger. If a citrus tee starts to loose leaves during the winter (WLD) raise the medium temperature to 70F. The best to you and your tree. - Millet (1,211-)
     
  7. eleven

    eleven Member

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    Thank you!

    I'm sure the pot drains in considerably less than an hour, I'm just not certain precisely how long. However, it begins to drain in less than a minute. As I dug around the soil did not seem compacted (at the roots it was still easy to move). I will water more often and see if the leaves stop dropping.

    How frequently should a medium such as mine be replaced?

    -eleven
     
  8. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    When the drainage become slow, or the tree become root bound. (1-2 years) Good luck with your tree. - Millet (1,211-)
     
  9. roachslayer

    roachslayer Member

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    Greg, what are the details of your "treatment" here? I have these stupid little flies (looks like fruit flies, but bigger wings, smaller body) crawling and hanging around my soil. Very annoying, dunno how to get rid of.
     
  10. Gregn

    Gregn Active Member 10 Years

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    Roachslayer, I use a small amount of a systemic insecticide just before i bring my potted citrus plants inside the house in the fall. I really don't like using it and when I do it is done sparingly. In the past I have had unsavory little critters crawling and breeding in the soil of the plants on the kitchen window sill. I use it to treat the soil only and not the plant.
     
  11. eleven

    eleven Member

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    I think I've solved it finally.

    After the tree started dumping leaves by the dozen I got desperate and rigged it with every light I could find (I bought a couple CFL bulbs too). For the first time EVER the tree is growing new leaves!

    I can't tell you how happy it makes me.

    : The problem was too little light. I fixed it and now instead of stress-blossoms there are tiny leaves sprouting all over.

    -eleven
     

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