Mixed Shrub Border/Hedge Design?

Discussion in 'Garden Design and Plant Suggestions' started by Airfun, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. Airfun

    Airfun Member

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    Location:
    Kamloops,BC,Canada
    Hi all, I'm hoping someone can lend some ideas. I have a flat frontyard that is pretty ugly. I want to plant a mixed border/hedge, I don't want a solid wall (it started that way and is now a row of broken teeth - I didn't plant it!!), but I do want to interrupt the view up to about 6-10ft, can go higher, this is a minimum.

    The border runs north-south (house 42' to the east), no shade, sandy alkaline soil, hard, very alkaline water (plants do not like it). The area is very hot and dry in the summer, not a lot of snowcover in the winter. Zone 5, near Kamloops,BC, semi arid, I'm a wee bit north - have forest instead of sagebrush :)

    I would like mostly evergreens, but do want deciduous shrubs as well (gotta feed the birds after all!). The area is 90' long with a chainlink fence (dogs), the fence is 42' from the house. Losing some lawn would be great, so the entire bed can be fairly deep - 15'+? I have to keep in mind how much I can do, or afford. I know I'll need to bring in a lot of either topsoil or compost before I can do anything. Currently there is a fir tree at the south end, it seems to be dying, I would like a tree there, but it's in a corner with low powerlines, so it needs to be smallish.

    All I've managed to do so far is get a vague idea of what I want to achieve, and a small list of shrubs. Even with the ones I'm thinking of how to place them in a pleasing manner is a place I can't seem to get to.

    List so far:
    Rocky Mountain Juniper (have Moonglow in the back yard)
    False Spirea (back yard as well-free shoots wooo-ho!!)
    Spirea (have a small one in the backyard, and some babies)
    American Elder
    Serviceberry/Saskatoon
    Nannyberry
    Juniper Hetzii Columnaris
    Juniper Tolleson`s Blue Weeping
    Roses - Austrian Copper (Have a Hansa in full shade that wants to move)

    I read of planting in sweeps, uneven groups, but I just can't seem to see it, keep seeing that line of broken teeth :)

    Here's a pic of my yard from overhead:
    http://bcsporthorse.com/albums/album02/aaa.jpg

    Front yard from the front door:
    http://bcsporthorse.com/albums/album02/aab.jpg

    Any ideas are very welcome!

    Chris
     
  2. westcoastgarden

    westcoastgarden Active Member

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    Are you removing all of the broken teeth? It looks like you probably should remove most.

    I can only tell you what I do - I find that garden design is very personal and you are the one who will be living with it.

    If so, and even if you aren't removing the teeth, I think I would start by mapping out a large mixed shrub/border bed. A large kidney shape would work I think. It should be big. Perhaps roughly 30 by 15 feet. I've used old garden hoses to make bed shapes before digging them out - coloured chalk that comes in bottles is good for marking the shape once you decide on it.

    Then, I would really work the site - turn the sod over - add lots of amendments - build it up at least a foot. You will then have your visual shape - and all that back breaking work out of the way.

    At that point you can use stand ins for the shrubs you are thinking of. I recently read a book where the author painted a dozen or so cheap shovels bright blue and used them to decide where to locate plants (later she just pushed them into the garden in different spots as moveable garden art)

    When you have a good idea of the eventual size of the shrubs you might like you can write it on a piece of paper and attach to the shovel - stake - whatever. At that point you can walk around and visualize what the plant will look like when grown - does it block the view? Provide a good screen for an ugly feature in the distant landscape etc.

    I personally love lilacs and would add one to the list - if it were my list - and plant it nearer the driveway side to take advantage of the heavenly fragrance.


    WCG
     
  3. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Pick up a copy of Timber Press book GARDEN DESIGN ILLUSTRATED.
     
  4. Anne Taylor

    Anne Taylor Active Member 10 Years

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    Hi Airfun,
    Greetings from the wet coast to the lovely Kamloops area. Well you said a lot in your first sentance. Flat is boring! Your 'broken teeth' while yucky looking now, may be a good place to start providing they are healthy. Maybe you need to fill in and form a border rather than a hedge line.
    Always be aware that the fir roots will suck away a lot of moisture and nutrients, if you are taking it out then no sweat, but otherwise regard its dripline as a difficult area. The thing about groupings is they are the antithesis of the broken teeth. Tall at the back, medium (spirea?) and then some lower brighter material( low juniper, potentillas?) Plant growth shape is important, soft mounds are nice for the mid heights but arrange with some spikey architectural plants too. (grasses in Kamloop's case). The idea of "sweeps" just means that your eye leads from one area to another in a pleasing fashion. No 'polka dots' as it were. Texture of leaves help. Fine ones are softening,- large ones puntuate. How about colour shifts? I'm thinking cotinus Royal Purple may work nicely in your zone. It will get tall and it's rather gangly but loves to be trimmed. Best news is it's a great 'dirt poor' candiate. There should be some grey to blue foliage in there too.
    As westcoast garden said vertical elements are very important, visualizing is different for everybody so do what you need to do. Look at the border area from different windows, and times of the day too.
    I'm sure you'll be fine, at least you are starting out planning rather than spending money and needing rescuing on poor choices. :o)
     
  5. Airfun

    Airfun Member

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    Thank you all for your replies! I started a response last night, my browser had an error and toasted it :( It was probably too long anyways :) So to be concise - I have pondered all the suggestions, appreciate all of them! I am getting closer to an idea. I am still stumped on placement, it's easier to plan a smaller area, I want a parklike atmoshphere, but my area isn't that big.

    If I cut it up into manageable portions, say 3 - do the north end this year (it's almost empty) the south end next year (the fir should last that long), the middle the following year, that allows me to keep the best cedars for a while, don't think I can keep them permanently as the plan is for low water use (can the handle it?).

    I can't seem to come up with a plan that isn't a hedge with with a shrub border in front, an advantage to planning in 3 stages and 3 areas is that it gets me away from the hedge, but I'm still stuck. It is true that planning is an individual process, but this individual can't even get an initial plan. It's funny on another popular forum regarding landscaping a typical complaint is that people come looking for plantlists to go with their design, I'm doing ok with the plantlist (thanks for your suggestions!), but I can't get the design aspect started. This is where someone is likely to suggest "Hire a professional!", I'm not there yet either :)

    I appreciate the responses so far, and would love more ideas on what would you do faced with this?

    Thanks,

    Chris
     
  6. westcoastgarden

    westcoastgarden Active Member

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    The Better Homes and Gardens website has free garden bed designs and each opens in its own pdf file http://www.bhg.com/bhg/category.jhtml?categoryid=/templatedata/bhg/category/data/gardenplans.xml

    One of them might inspire you and give you a starting point. You can then substitute plants that are suitable for your area and adjust the size as required.

    I think it is best to have an overall plan before you start any work even if you divide the work up over a year or two.

    For example, take a look at this plan
    http://www.bhg.com/bhg/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/bhg/story/data/gp_LargeFrontYard_032505.xml&catref=cat10004
    and this one
    http://www.bhg.com/bhg/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/bhg/story/data/propertyline.xml&catref=cat10004
     
  7. Airfun

    Airfun Member

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    WCG thanks again! I had spent a lot of time on the BHG site, and came away frustrated, and overwhelmed at the size of what I was planning. When I look (again) at the links you posted, I'm looking with a different eye I guess, the second one could be repeated with some variation, and some substitution to get a bit more height. The first one isn't as appealing due to the lack of general height. The front of my house is pretty bad as well, the first plan shows a fine area in front of the house. The front of the house is a few years away, I need to rip out the sidewalk and front step, then it will be a generous front step and a wide flowing walk - there I won't have a problem, the area is restricted by the walk, house and steps, I guess I need boundries lol.

    The plan becomes even more important with doing things in stages, I could end up with 3 areas that don't mesh. It will look pretty unbalanced untill it's all done, but I really don't want to give up my "cover" untill I have to ( I'm laughing as I write this, I'm a recluse, but the birds like it! :))

    The backyard was divided into chunks, it's not finished, but I'm liking it. The areas there have their reasons for being - they were smaller areas and manageable. I worked myself into a state of frustration with all that needed to be done, dividing it up was like a little calming light. Ahhh.... the value of conversation here , thanks again :)

    Chris
     
  8. bcgift52

    bcgift52 Active Member

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    Dividing into manageable areas is a good idea because if you're working on it yourself doing it all in one go is going to be impossible. I think working on meshing it together later can be achieved with repition of plants, or even with pathways. However, I did
    read somewhere that having separate 'rooms' in a garden can is good.
     
  9. amazingmumo

    amazingmumo Member

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    I think using ornamental grasses is a unique idea in the front yards also
     
  10. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I have been contemplating your pictures for several days and still don't know if I can help because I can't quite come up with a vision either. I am having as much trouble with my own front yard which is also flat, and I must say flat is tough, it just leaves you with too much room.

    Your plant list is almost more a problem than a help, I think, because it is so short and is limited to shrubs, mostly. I think you need trees as well. But besides that, it isn't plant names you need at this point, but plant shapes. Also plant types: evergreen vs.deciduous. Deciduous screening is less-than-ideally effective!

    Designing with only aesthetics in mind can also be extremely frustrating due to the amount of mental modelling required and the fact that aesthetic preferences are so contextual - that is to say, you may admire a certain style, but only in a certain setting. From that perspective, by the way, it might help to look at your house from the road, and think about what you like from that angle.

    When topography, personal preference, and plants don't give you enough direction, I think two other options are (a) function and (b) hardscape - patio, path, wall, boulders, statuary....

    Does this yard serve any function besides screening you and feeding the birds? Are there any hardscape elements that you might want to incorporate in the longer run to serve either those functions or your aesthetics? Will this be a yard to be in, or just to look at?

    You do have a nice opportunity to do the yard in parts and the right hand corner that is now very open is a good place to start. As you suggest in your last post, if each part serves its function well, then they will mesh, and in truth, nothing in gardening is cast in stone (unless you pour concrete) and so you can always adjust the transitions later.

    To start with, you do need to mentally edit out those cedars unless you want to expand that idea and extend the row as a backdrop for the rest of your vision. And, I would start with thinking about where you want trees and get them started, as you are losing high canopies at a great rate.
     
  11. Gordo

    Gordo Active Member 10 Years

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    The advice here seems to be consistant: Start with an overall plan.
    I think Karin nailed it, when she advised to consider the importance of function in your plan in order to maximize your enjoyment of the garden. The key question for me as I begin to plan is; What are the uses & functions to include, and where within the garden are these functions best served? Favored plant materials can more easily be considered and incorporated later as part of the overall plan.
    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2006
  12. Airfun

    Airfun Member

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    Once again I was almost done a reply, and all of a sudden the page changed to "page cannot be displayed", this is really frustrating! So trying to recall what I wrote before....and writing in NoteTab to make sure it doesn't disappear! May be I just take to long to write a reply? :)

    Thanks again for your replies! This area doesn't have any other use except to interrupt the view and look nice, that makes it difficult to divide it into rooms or usage areas. The back yard is the living space.

    I would love to incorporate grasses into this! I've spent hours poring over this site: http://www.bluestem.ca/ they are in a similar climate to mine and they have a wonderful selection. I know I do need trees as well, KarinL you'll get a chuckle out of this - they are in some ways more difficult to choose as I don't want to overwhelm the yard :) The list I had is a "so far", all of choices are low water needs, and alkaline tolerant is a bonus, intolerant is out, I have been considering shapes and textures, and I do want it weighted more to evergreens. The mid and taller height choices are what I have concentrated on so far - getting that started, as you wrote, KarinL is the priority, they take the longest to grow and they also provide the main purpose of this border.

    My intent wasn't to do a plantlist, then conjure up a plan, but finding what I can grow here was part of the process. Couldn't make the plan come together, so look for what will do well here, and fit various criteria and see if it provides some inspiration, that worked about as well of sketching blobs and spikes.

    Thanks again for your replies, it's all good information, steering me in the right direction!

    Chris
     
  13. bcgift52

    bcgift52 Active Member

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    If you mark the 'remember me' box when you log-in, you can take forever to do your replies, otherwise I think it's 30 minutes.
     
  14. ktjo211

    ktjo211 Member

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    As this thread's been running for some time, you may have made all your planting decisions by now - but, just in case - remember that 'flat' doesn't have to remain that way and the greatest enemy to shrubs in Kamloops is Wind. I can't tell, from the pics, which area of the City you're in, but the flatness suggests Brock, Rayleigh or Dallas,
    ie, west, north or east of city center...lol

    If your established evergreens, particularly the cedars, aren't wind burned, you're in luck - but apart from size, shape, colour and type - be sure to determine the needs of each for water. As you already know, that's a basic that can be tough to provide in quantity at certain times of the year.

    And - it never hurts to look at what the natural landscape of the area sustains. Obviously, black/ponderosa pines, golden willow and the common lilac do well without much help beyond the first year.

    Some of the smaller shrubs that do well (drive the neighborhood) are potentilla,
    forsythia, lilac hybrids, Japanese maples (some, not all) - and check out the Nishiki
    willow - a lovely little shrub with leaves of green w. pink and white - looks like it's
    flowering all season.

    I don't know if Carl is still with Art Knapp's, but if he is - talk with him - he's experienced, very knowledgeable and knows the area like the back of his hand.

    Good luck with it!!!

    K
     
  15. Airfun

    Airfun Member

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    Thanks for your reply k, I don't have the plan down pat yet, thought I had some help, but seems I'm on my own. I've got drawings,sketches, diagrams, and a bunch of pots in the front yard acting as standins :) I'm in Heffley Creek, so not much wind out here (yahoooo!!!). It will be flat because I can't afford the materials to change that, unfortunately because I would like to change the texture a bit.

    Because the fir has to come out, and thinking where it's parts are going to fall, it's coming out this year. So the 3 year plan isn't going lengthwise, it'll be the backbone in this year, then fill in. The cedars just don't seem to fit, besides, they get lots of extra water and still look awful, there's 3 or 4 that look ok, but they are in a straight line.

    Looking at the natural landscape, well, pine is tops, low juniper, oregon grape - so looking at that I've got oregon grape, a beautiful austrian pine, 3 whichita blue junipers, looking for green uprights, but haven't found any so far, a Black Beauty and Madonna sambucus, Smokey saskatoon, 3 butterfly bush, and a mockorange. Still looking for the weeping juniper, and I want to have a crabapple.

    Placement is still my problem. The pine is going to be a little south of the center to provide the best shade for the house in the summer, in the winter the sun is so far south it won't affect the house as much. The weeping juniper is intended to go on the north end near a 6 ft cedar fence. the upright junipers are intended to be in between in groups of 3, 3 groups through the bed. The crab is intended to be one one side of the pine, not sure whether north or south. The south end is where I want to hide the view the most, but it also has the V of powerlines that the fir is bothering, I'm thinking to plant 3 junipers there, loosely encircling the stump, thinking to have it cut off about 2 ft tall and putting a birdbath on it. The pine needs to go in a permanent spot, I couldn't even get it out of the truck without help, it's occupying a wheeled cart now, I was hauling it around for placement ideas, but it's heavy!

    Any thoughts? I've spent so much time pondering this, I'm at my wits end :(
     

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