rubbery leaves on orchid

Discussion in 'Orchidaceae (orchids)' started by neko musume, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. neko musume

    neko musume Active Member 10 Years

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    hello,

    i've been trying to grow orchids, quite unsuccessfully, for the past few years. i usually purchase them from growers at orchid shows, but one was a gift i assume was from a florist, and another was a baby orchid in a plastic bag that they sell in airports like honolulu international, as last minute gifts.

    i'm not picky at all about what type of orchid i grow and have tried to grow just about every type except for the "lady slipper" type.

    i have never been able to get any of them to flower or re-flower, despite potting them in good, well-draining bark and or moss medium, having the pots sit in a tray of water for humidity, and having them get ample, bright, indirect sunlight. i keep them indoors.

    the only thing i don't do regularly is mist them, as i don't know how necessary that is, and i only feed them about once every two months.

    i have a question about food. is it possible for the granules to get old and ineffective. i have a jar that i purchased over five years ago that i've been using. oops. i went to go read the label and i must have finally tossed it out. it was a special white powdery mix from one of the orchid growers and i don't remember the numbers on it.

    i've posted photos of my latest attempt and it doesn't look too good. the flower was a shot taken in april, when i received it as a gift. i do not know enough about orchids to know what type it is, and it came potted in soil, spagnum moss and styrofoam packaging "popcorn". it seemed to be growing mold so i transplanted it into pure wood chips about a month afterward. i think they are redwood ones.

    i'm hoping my photos post. i don't see them in the "preview post".

    i would appreciate any help anyone can offer.

    thank you ! ^_^

    n. musume
     

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  2. GreenLeaf

    GreenLeaf Active Member 10 Years

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    Hi,
    The orchid in your photo is a phalaenopsis, also known as the "butterfly orchid." The leaves look quite winkled and floppy, so it might have root rot. When an orchid's roots are rotted, it has no way to soak in water and thus becomes dehydrated. Did you check your roots? Are they brown/rotted, dead looking, and/or the outer layer comes off leaving a stringy interior? Feel the roots. If they are hard as a carrot, then fine. If they are squishy or empty, then they're dead. If the roots do not display the above symptoms of root rot, then I would guess the orchid is underwatered (which causes floppy leaves too).

    If root rot: Repot the orchid in fresh sphagnum inside a plastic bag. Keep the air moist, but the roots barely moist. This acts like a little greenhouse to help your orchid from dying from dehydration while it recuperates by growing new roots (which may take months).

    If roots are too dry: Increase watering and the orchid should perk up.

    About the fertilizer, fertilizing twice a month is too little. I follow the rule of "weakly, weekly," where you fertilize about 1/4 the recommended strength each watering, and you flush out the pots every 4 waterings or so. Don't use very old fertilizer. You don't have to use special orchid fertilizer. I use the regular houseplant fertilizer (a balanced one) and my orchids bloom yearly or more.

    You said the pots sit in a tray of water. The pots themselves do not contact the water, right? If they do, then the pots are pretty much soaked in water and the water will certainly rot the roots.

    Hope this helps. Good luck!
     
  3. neko musume

    neko musume Active Member 10 Years

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    hello greenleaf,

    thank you so much for the reply !

    i had been very reluctant to pull the plant out of the pot to examine the roots, thinking the less i disturbed it, the better, but at this point, it looks like i don't have much to lose.

    i will step up my feeding after pulling it out, examining the roots, and repotting it tomorow, and will hope for the best. i will try your suggestion for increasing humidity, and will post photos if i have any type of success.

    thank you for letting me know what type of orchid it is. i'm not very good at identifying orchids because i don't know what characteristics to look for, when doing so. they all seem so very different and exotic to me. sometimes i see similarities in the shape of the base of them, but that's about as complicated as it gets.

    i just don't understand how some people can grow these things blindfolded with two hands tied behind their backs, but i think experience must have a lot to do with it.

    thank you again ! ^_^

    n. musume
     
  4. GreenLeaf

    GreenLeaf Active Member 10 Years

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    You're welcome!

    Now that you know what kind of orchid it is, you can go on the internet and search for "phalaenopsis care" or something. Each type of orchid requires different growing needs, so fulfilling the needs of the phalaenopsis may be different from other types of orchids.

    These orchids are actually quite tough. When I first began growing orchids I got the exact same orchid you got--a white butterfly orchid. Rotted its roots, but I repotted and gave it humidity, and now the leaves are perked up and growing. Don't give up!
     
  5. neko musume

    neko musume Active Member 10 Years

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    hello greenleaf,

    thank you again for the information and encouragement. i'm posting a couple of photos from today, when i pulled the plant to repot it. please try not to cringe.

    boy was i surprised. i honestly don't know how it got rotten roots. i had it in bark, thinking that would prevent perpetual wet roots, and the pot sat atop a collection of stones in the water dish i had it in. i'm really confused.

    unless you think it's too far gone with it's poor stringy roots, i will repot and try to trap some humidity for it.

    thank you again ! ^_^

    n. musume
     

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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2005
  6. GreenLeaf

    GreenLeaf Active Member 10 Years

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    Sorry to say this, but I don't see any live roots, so I don't think the chances are too high...you said the pot was on a water dish, did you make sure that when the pot sat on the dish, the water did not actually touch the pot? If it did, then the water could wick up through the holes in the bottom and soak the bark inside. If it didn't, well...how often do you water? When I water, I usually dig my finger a few inches down into the bark and if I feel it's dry I water. Well, just try to bag it up with lots of humidity, though I doubt chances are too good. To make you feel better, my two first phal orchids got terrible root rot too...I think it's just a lesson everyone goes through when they're first growing orchids. I had a hard time when I remember I unpotting my orchids and seeing no roots! I know it feels awful...but try to give your orchid a chance.
     
  7. neko musume

    neko musume Active Member 10 Years

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    hello greenleaf,

    i think you are correct about my plant being unwell.

    the stones that i had the pot resting on may have caused the potting medium to remain wet. i see that now as i look at it. the retaining dish i had the stones in, is deeper than i thought, so the bottom of the pot was most likely sitting in water.

    i watered every time i saw the level in the retaining dish get low, and i never checked with my finger to test how wet the medium was. it always looked dry on top. oh boy. i can see all the things i did wrong as i type this.

    i will bag and try to save it though. there's no harm in that. i will post on the outcome although i'm certain how it will go.

    thank you so much for all your help ! ^_^

    n. musume
     
  8. GreenLeaf

    GreenLeaf Active Member 10 Years

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    You're welcome! Good luck with your orchid...Now that you know, you can certainly grow your next orchid with lots of success. The important thing is to learn...:)
     
  9. sunlover

    sunlover Member

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    Hi GreenLeaf,

    I was just trying to save my little orchid that I bought around October 2007 from HomeDepot and I came across your advice for n. musume. I took my orchid (which i think is a similar variety to musume's, but it had smaller, bright, pink/purple flowers when it was in bloom) out of it's pot and noticed that all of the roots were rotten. The material that it is planted in is some sort of moss that was tightly packed into the pot. I pulled it all away, trying to find some healthy roots, but found none. There are, however, two new buds (i assume they are root buds becasue they are facing downwards) right at the stem. Two of the leaves are leathery, but one new leaf is beginning to grow. I was wondering how I should get the roots to continue to grow. Right now, the plant is in a ziplock bag with very little potting material (moss). Just enough to retain a little moisture. Should The new little root buds be covered in some sort of soil/bark/moss? will light on the root buds destroy them? should I place the ziplock bag in a window for light, or is it too cold at this time of year near the window? Should I let direct sunlight on the bag, or keep it in shade? How long should I keep the orchid in a ziplock bag?

    And, if the roots do grow, how should I repot it to avoid root rot in the future? I assume that the really tightly packed moss kept the roots too moist and although I only watered it every 2-3 weeks, it stayed too wet. I also ony have windows that face East and only get 1 hour of direct sunlight. The rest of the day, the plant gets only indirect light, and may have gotten too cool over the winter months. I live in Victoria, so there were only very few days where the outside temperature dropped below freezing. But there is a baseboard heater below the window sill which keeps the room quite warm.

    Wow, sorry to overload you with questions. I'm just really keen on learning how to care for orchids. I think I have quite a green thumb with other house plants and outdoor gardens, but orchids seem more challenging.

    Thanks so much for advice! I will try to figure out how to post a picture.
     
  10. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    A couple of things to consider.

    Almost all orchids we grow in our homes are tropical species. They normally live on the side of a tree as an epiphyte and are not growing in any kind of medium. Now, if you've ever been to a rain forest you will likely have observed it rains almost all the time. That means these plants are use to far more water than most of us ever give them. As for fertilizer, the only fertilizer they obtain in nature is in the form of dissolved minerals in the rain water. Obviously, that natural form of nutrient is highly diluted. In South America, most of that "fertilzer" comes in the form of dust blowing across the Atlantic Ocean from Africa during major dust storms.

    A lot of people try to force their orchids to expect water on our schedules. Unfortunately, their need for water is in their genes and they néed it often. But if you live in an area of hard water consider using bottled water that has been purified. Jsut add a little fertilzer to the water.

    Another thing to consider, I used to buy the bagged orchids all the time and could never make them bloom. What I didn't understand was virtually all of those plants were still juvenile. It takes most orchids 7 years to mature to the point they will produce blooms. If you buy one that isn't mature, all you can do is wait until it becomes an adult. Believe me, I've waited years on some!

    Now, you asked about misting. It would sort of be obvious that misting is related to rain water. So misting is important. In my tropical atrium I grow hundreds of orchids and they bloom all the time. I've probably got 20 or more in bloom right now and more in spike. By early summer many others will be producing a spike. But I've also got specimens that only bloom during the winter. Again, whatever is in the orchid's genes is going to dictate when and how long they bloom. I've got a few rare specimens that bloom for a single day once a year!

    I suggest growers try as best possible to treat their orchids as if they were still in the rain forest. Generally, that will require much brighter light than a plant can receive in a living room. All of mine are on the south wall of my atrium during the winter so they receive constant daily light that is direct, just slightly diffused. In about a month, once we don't have temperatures below 55 degrees at night, they all will go out into the yard. I have a large arbor covered with a single layer of screen wire. All the orchids hang up near the top so they receive bright light during the summer. The screen cuts the light just about in half, but it is still very bright.

    During the summer all my orchids are watered every single day, many times twice a day. During the winter about every 2nd or 3rd day. And I mix up a dilute Miracle Grow fertilizer and spray them often. If you mist, put about 1/4 teaspoon of an orchid fertilizer in the misting bottle and mist them often. If you can move them outside for the summer, use about 2 tablespoons of Miracle Grow in one of the Miracle Grow feeders and attach it to a garden hose. The plants will gather all the fertilizer they need both through their leaves (foliar feeding) and through the roots.

    The advice about the potting media being changed is excellent. I change every single plant at least once a year. Many people like many different medias and I've tried just about all. I've tried crushed volcanic rock, bark with charcoal and gravel, ground coconut husk with charcoal and others. My favorite is still plain old Schultz's orchid mix with gravel, bark and charcoal. Just change it at least once a year. I'm going to go look up a couple of links to articles I've written about growing orchids and I'll post the links here shortly. All of my training with orchids came from some of the largest orchid growers in South Florida including RF Orchids. You can look up similar info to what I'm going to post on their website as well.

    Don't give up! Orchids are easy to grow! You just have to give them what they expect.

    Here are a few articles that might answer some of your questions:

    http://www.exoticrainforest.com/misting orchids.html

    http://www.exoticrainforest.com/caringforyourorchids.html

    http://www.exoticrainforest.com/orchidsoffered.html

    And sorry, I didn't notice the date of the original post until now!
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2008
  11. neko musume

    neko musume Active Member 10 Years

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    Hello Photopro,

    Thank you so much for the useful information.

    Unfortunately, the orchid in my post didn't make it, but I have a couple of other ones in the yard and I'm determined to keep at it.

    I'm curious to know if you try to force a second set of blooms from one stalk when it's initial set of flowers start to fade, or do you prune the entire stalk. On the other hand, do you just leave the stalk to dry up and detach on it's own.

    Thanks again.

    Sincerely,

    n. musume
     
  12. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    That would depend on the species. For most I just cut the old spike. For Phalaenopsis you can cut off only the dead end and it may just bloom again. Now, I'll tell your right here I don't grow a lot of Phalaenopsis orchids. Nothing wrong with them at all, it is just my love is Vandaceious orchids, Oncidium, Paphs and a few Dendrobiums. Best you seek advice from someone who is more knowledgeable about Phalaenopsis if that is the tribe you prefer.

    I have found that some of the tribes I grow will produce multiple spikes in a year, sometimes three times. But most are seasonal and have a specific time of year they prefer to produce a spike. We lived in Miami, FL for over 20 years and I used to spend a lot of time with the large orchid growers down in Homestead, FL and learned a lot from them about how they water and offer fertilizer. Virtually all give their plants fertilizer every day, they just give it in a dilute form. And most of them grow their plants hanging from the ceiling under a slightly opaque film so they gather brighter light. You should walk through a place like RF Orchids in Homestead. More orchids in bloom at any one time than you will believe!
     
  13. neko musume

    neko musume Active Member 10 Years

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    Hello Photopro,

    I don't know what type of orchids I have. They were both given to me as gifts while in bloom and it's been so long I can't recall what type of flowers they produce. *_*

    In any case, I will take your advice about bright indirect light and trying to create a bit more humidity around them.

    You mentioned feeding your orchids. I have a bottle of bluish granules and remember seeing a number of different colors at the nursery - yellow, green, a fuchsia etc. Are you very strict about changing the orchids' diets depending on when they are dormant or blooming, or is this more of a marketing ploy.

    Thank you again,

    ^_^ n. musume
     
  14. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    For the most part I just use "off the shelf" Miracle Grow fertilizer. I do try to use fertilizer formulated for orchids from time to time due to the micro-nutrients but I've found that water soluable fertilizers sold in most garden centers work fine. I just use it in a diluted form substantially weaker than suggested by the manufacturer, but give it often.

    I've been fortunate to have been able to spend a good deal of time in rain forests in Central America as well as Colombia and Venezuela and try to duplicate the frequency of the water similar to what Nature gives her plants. With the frequency of the water along with the brighter light I find my plants grow well, have to be divided more often, and bloom year after year.

    I believe people try to make their orchids fit their own schedule rather than trying to duplicate Nature's schedule. Nature seems to have a better idea of how often these plants need to be watered!
     
  15. neko musume

    neko musume Active Member 10 Years

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    Hello Photopro,

    Thank you for your prompt reply. Your advice and success are very encouraging.

    I have always failed to regularly feed any of the orchids I've had. If I have any luck with the two that I have, I will post photos of them.

    Thank you again.

    n. musume ^_^
     
  16. myfianceeisaflowerkiller

    myfianceeisaflowerkiller Member

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    n. musume,

    Thank you for your posts!!! Each week my fiancee goes to Costco...she carefully picks out one or two orchids, at any given time we have six or seven -- she is a self-admited "non-green thumb"...and, so, at any given point in time, our collection of orchids are in varying states of passage...I feel like I am in a floral cemetary.

    In fact, your orchids look like 4H Club Blue Ribbon winners compared to my fiancee's...

    I have asked her to read GreenLeaf's blog advice and your series of questions.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2010

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