Trouble With New Meyer Lemon

Discussion in 'Citrus' started by Vigo, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Hello, I got a Meyer Lemon Tree in the mail about a month ago. I followed the directions to pot the plant, but have been having some trouble with it.

    It seems the leaves are yellowing, curling, and falling off. It started with the lower, smaller leaves and has progressed up into the larger leaves. The yellowing always seems to begin in the tip and move inwards on the leaf. After it continues to yellow, it eventually curls up and falls off. By the time the leaves fall they are pretty dry.

    The directions that came with the plant attribute this problem to possible overwatering. I have been careful about checking the soil's moisture, and while the soil is damp, it is not soggy. My moisture meter generally reads moisture of between 3 and 6 (out of 10) in the pot.

    The plant gets full sunlight from about 1 PM until sunset. The soil is part all purpose Miracle Grow potting mix and part Succulents Mix. The directions that came with the tree said that would be fine. I've had no luck finding a mix specific to citrus in the area. The pot is a 14 inch clay pot with drain at the bottom. The directions said to use a 12-14 inch pot, so I grabbed one at a local garden center. I have a layer of round stones at the bottom of the pot, and made sure to leave open the drain hole. I put about 1.5 inches of soil in above that, and then the plant and more soil. I put in just enough to cover the root ball. I made sure the trunk wasn't under the surface. I've watered a couple of times in the past month, one of those times with a mild Miracid and water mix to give the plant Nitrogen.

    The leaves also have some other odd areas (see pictures provided) that appear almost-black in some spots. I'm not sure what that is. There are also quite a few white spots on the leaves. These spots alsmost look like what happens when you have salt water that evaporates and leaves a white powdery residue. The residue is totally dry and looks under a magnifying glass like either salt or powdered sugar.

    There are some holes and chew outs in some of the leaves- almost as if something is eating some of the leaves. I checked all around for insects with a magnifying glass and found none. I've also had some strong root growth, despite the issues with the leaves. The rootball was pretty small when it came and has since gotten larger to a degree that I can readily notice when poking around in the pot. The tree also has two lemons on it.

    Does anyone know why this plant is struggling?
     

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  2. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    You probably are overwatering and the soil mix is not one that is good for citrus--your rocks in the bottom don't help the drainage.

    Forget the moisture meter-- use your finger and dig a little hole in the potting mix-- if it is not dry at least 2-3 inches deep--do not water.

    You can search this forum using the search button near the top of the page (in the dark green line) and read about CHC (coconut husk chips) and a potting mix made with them, but if you do not want to use CHC, use 3/4 bark chips and 1/4 of the potting mix you are now using (or peat moss). Citrus need a fast draining potting mix that has lots of air pockets. The small amount of peat moss or potting mix will hold enough water for the plant. Water so that 10-20 % goes through the soil then wait until the top 2-3 inches is DRY.

    Skeet
     
  3. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Hmm- I will see if I can locate the coconut husk chips at the garden center around the corner. If they don't have coconut, is there any specific variety of wood bark chip you recommend?


    Edit: found a bag of coconut husk chips at the local center- I repotted today using a mix of mostly chips and some potting soil mix.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2007
  4. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    I'm sorry I did not point out that the CHC chips need to be preconditioned before using. They often contain too much salt for citrus. Millet has posted a recipe for CHC potting soil that I used (as I am sure many others have). It calls for soaking and rinsing the chips 3 times and he adds some minerals and slow release fertilizer. I will see if I can find that post and give you the link.

    Don't worry about unpotting what you have immediately until you have the new mix prepared.

    Here is the link to a thread where Millet gives this method for preparing CHC.
    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/f...t=12549&highlight=CHC+calcium+exchange&page=2

    Skeet
     
  5. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Is there something I should look for in terms of whether these chips have salt? I got them from a garden shop that uses them to grow Orchids. I figured since they were made for growing Orchids straight from the bag (the directions indicated putting them straight into the Orchid soil) that they'd be safe for use with the Lemon. How would I know if it turns out there's excess salt?
     
  6. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    Those are probably fine. Many of the sources for CHC are just bulk chips that may be intended for a variety of uses, but if those were prepared for orchids, I am sure they were free of salt.

    The next issue in the care of your tree is fertilizer. Citrus in containers need to have fertilizer supplied in the ratio that they use it 5-1-3. That is the NPK ratio used by citrus and it is best if you provide a fertilizer that is close to that ratio. They also need trace minerals and it is best if those mineral are supplied with the fertilizer. A good choice is a slow release fertilizer like Osmocote. They make one that is close to that ratio with trace minerals (I think it is 17-7-12). There is also a new brand I have seen at HD called Dynamite that is a six month slow release with trace minerals.

    Skeet
     
  7. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Is this the "Dynamite" that comes in the round plastic can and is the little balls of fertilizer? I got one at Home Depot a few weeks ago that claims to be general purpose. I never really got around to using it. I can get the Osmocote at the garden center too, or will the Dynamite work fine just as well?
     
  8. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I don't have time to get into this thread, but just reading your post, here is a list of things that were done wrong.
    1. "moisture meter" = (always use your finger, throw away the meter)
    2. "Miracle Grow potting mix and part Succulents Mix" = (bad growing medium)
    3. "one time with a mild Miracid" = (fertilize at minimum 250PPM a MINIMUM once month)
    4. "layer of round stones at the bottom of the pot" = (This hurt the drainage)
    5. "1.5 inches of soil in above that" = (This hurt the drainage)
    6. "14 inch pot" = (questionable)

    Good Luck To This Tree - Millet
     
  9. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Yes that medium held too much water- the potting soil was pretty heavy stuff. The instruction sheet that came with the tree called for it, but I can see now that it was quite wet stuff, even a full couple of weeks after watering. I hope replacing it with the CHC and soil mix will help it do better. I'll also change my routine with fertilizing- I'll start using the slow release offerings that Skeeterbug suggested.


    Now that I have repotted with the CHC and soil mix, should I fertilize and water right away, or give it time to sit and adjust to the new mix and show new growth? Thanks for your help.
     
  10. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    There are several formulations of Dynamite, some with and some without trace elements. If yours does not have trace elements you will need to supply that separately. Most of the ones I saw were close to the 5-1-3 ratio, but to be sure, which N-P-K ratio do you have?

    As for watering, I would go ahead and water now. The CHC chips will hold 7 times their weight in water, but it will take a while for the roots to develop the fine root hairs and reach into the CHC chips, so you need to watch your tree for response and may need to water a little more often for a while, but use the peat moss in the potting mix as an indicator-- if it is moist in the top 2-3 inches-- don't water. Millet is the CHC expert and he says that if you have the correct ratio of CHC and peat moss that it is difficult to overwater. Once your tree is established in the CHC mix, you can use the weight of the pot to determine if it needs water.

    The next issue you should read about is winter leaf drop-- use the search function at the top to find post about it.
    Skeet
     
  11. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    I'll take a look at the Dynamite package this evening for what it says. In the meantime, is it proper for the tree to continue to get full sun?
     
  12. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Did you pre-treat the CHC as required? Did you CEC with Calcium Nitate, and Magnesium Sulfate on the last rinse? - Millet
     
  13. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Hmm no- I didn't add anything extra to the CHC. Is it possible to add them still after the repot (via a solution or the like)? I've read that some growers use a solution of Epsom Salts to give plants Magnesium Sulfate at least.
     
  14. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    "In the meantime, is it proper for the tree to continue to get full sun?"

    Yes, for now that is no problem, but when temperatures start getting cooler that can be a problem if your soil temp falls below the mid 60s. That is why you need to understand about WLD.

    Skeet
     
  15. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Is that where the roots are too cold to provide adequate cooling for the leaves? I did a brief search and found that around 55 degrees F that the roots shut down, leaving the leaves to dry out if the leaves are in the sun. I also read that Christmas lights can help warm the pot and the soil too. That seems to make sense.


    I watered the plant today, but held off on fertilizing since I read that fertilizing a stressed plant can apparently do harm. When do you suggest as an appropriate time to fertilize after repotting? It seems now that the medium has been changed that it's time to address what in the way of resources are in the soil for the plant.

    The Dynamite I have is a "continuous release" form that claims to feed for several months. The mixture is 18-6-8. It also has trace minerals in it (iron, potash , magnesium, manganese, boron, copper, iron, molybdenum). It was the highest nitrogen fertilizer I could locate at that particular store. Is this the sort of thing you had in mind as being good for this kind of tree?
     
  16. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    That is the fertilizer you want. You can use that now, it will not release any fertilizer until the next watering. Slow release fertilizers in container plants are used according to the size of the container, not the size of the tree-- the product should have directions that are based on container size. Since your tree will not grow much during the winter, you can probably use just 1/2 of the normal rate for now.

    You are correct on the WLD-- 55F is absolute zero, but anything below mid 60s is minimal in terms of root activity. If your tree will be exposed to direct sun, it is best that the soil is above 65F-- measured with a thermometer in the soil.

    Skeet
     
  17. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Because, your tree will be kept warm throughout the winter months, plus it seems that you will be keeping the root system "warm" (65F+), and the tree will be receiving good winter sunlight, I would then recommend not to apply 1/2 the normal labeled rate of the 18-6-8 fertilizer, but the full application rate. Especially since the formulation is a slow release fertilizer. The fertilizer can be added now, with no problem. Notice that magnesium sulfate, was not listed on the label as one of the trace minerals, (which is common), therefore you will need to feed the tree some Epsom salts. The usual application rate for a container tree is one teaspoon per gallon of WARM water. Epsom salts has a hard time dissolving in cold water. - Millet
     
  18. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Thank you both for those tips-

    I gave it a full dose of the Dynamite according to the directions on the package, but didn't water afterwards since I watered yesterday (about 17 fl oz of bottled water, since I think the tap water here has chlorine in it).

    I will get some Epsom Salts tonight. The next time I water I'll use the Epsom salts mix. I will also have to pick up a soil thermometer the next time I'm at the garden center. A few more of the leaves have dropped today, would that be due to the stress of the repot and new soil mix?
     
  19. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    Unless your roots are cold, and I don't think it is that cold in MD yet, the leaf drop is probably due to the stress from the overwatering before it was repotted-- it takes a while for the abcission process to be completed. As for soil thermometer, you can use a kitchen thermometer as long as it provides a readable scale in the range of 50 to 100 F.

    One more thing-- when you water, you should water so that at least 10 to 20% of the water goes through the pot.
     
  20. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    The temperatures here in MD are in the 50s-60s at night and 80s during the day. The plant is on the west/southwest side of the building so it sits in the shade until the afternoon and then the sun gets at it. The morning should give the pot time to warm a bit before the sun reaches the plant I would imagine.



    As for the water- from now on I'll give it more water in a single watering. The quantity I gave it yielded some drainage out of the pot but not much. I also picked up a carton of epsom salts this evening.

    Is there any predicting the length of the abscission process in these trees? Or is that something that varies widely?
     
  21. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    I do not have and answer for that-- Maybe Millet does, but it I think can be at least a week or 2.
     
  22. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Alright- I suppose I'll lose a few more before the process is complete, but I hope the tree's new situation has it on the right track now.

    I checked the soil tonight using the feel 3 or so inches deep. It felt pretty dry and since it was hot today, and probably will be fairly hot tomorrow, I gave it a watering with the Epsom Salts solution Millet suggested. I watered until a fair amount drained out of the bottom. I will say that the drainage flow seems much better now- when I had that old pure potting soil mix it seemed like all the water just sat in the pot. This time more water ran out of the bottom of the pot, so I guess drainage is improved. Hopefully this activated the fertilizer too so that the tree will get some feeding from it as well.
     
  23. Vigo

    Vigo Member

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    Update:

    The leaf loss has slowed dramatically- I still have 2 or 3 yellow leaves on there that may fall, but the rest seem to be holding up. The ones that are yellow now are the same ones that were yellow a week ago. The two lemons on the tree are starting to turn more yellow.

    I will say that I'm a bit disappointed not to see any new leaves yet though. Are these plants slow to bring new leaves?
     
  24. Millet

    Millet Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The growth of a citrus tree is allocated first to the root zone, when the period of root growth is concluded (approximately a period of two months), it is then time for the growth of the tree's foliage, which is also approximately a two month period. While the roots are growing there will be no growth of foliage, as most all of the energy is being used by the roots. As your tree is in Maryland, new leaf growth could not start until next spring. However, if you heat the roots between 70 - 86F and give the foliage good light, you can expect to see root and leaf growth through out winter months. - Millet
     
  25. skeeterbug

    skeeterbug Active Member

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    Vigo, Just so you know, The reason for watering thru the pot is to prevent salt buildup in the soil. And one more thing that might be of help to you is that leaves that fall with the petiole attached is an indication that the leaf fall is natural-- if the leaf falls but the petiole remains attached to the tree, it is a sign of stress.

    Skeet
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007

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